Hi everyone,
I’m a 36-year-old woman, married to my wife, with a 1.5 yr old. We live half a mile from my parents in a small, reputation-obsessed town. My mom is completely enmeshed in our lives, and it’s tearing my marriage apart.
She calls and texts me constantly, and gets upset if I don’t respond right away. She guilt-trips me for not answering or not spending enough time with her. It’s never an emergency — she just seems to feel entitled to 24/7 access to me and, now, my son. I’ve always been the “go-to” child, especially since most of my siblings live out of state. I’m also the only LGBTQ+ sibling in a very traditional Catholic Hispanic family, so I’ve spent my life trying to “make up” for that by overachieving and people-pleasing — especially with my mom.
She still drinks, even though the rest of the family is in recovery or avoids alcohol. It’s a topic we tiptoe around, but it creates tension. My wife, who grew up in a healthy family with actual boundaries, is completely overwhelmed. She’s made it clear that if things don’t change, our marriage won’t survive this.
Holidays? My mom expects us for every one. She acts like she owns our schedule. My people-pleasing instincts kick in hard, and I constantly find myself minimizing my needs, my wife’s needs, and even my son’s needs — just to keep the peace with my mom. I’ve tried to set soft boundaries, but she either ignores them or finds a way to make me feel guilty for even trying.
Here’s my question:
My wife and I have been talking about moving just a little farther away — maybe to a neighboring town — to get some physical space. We’re wondering:
Would that actually help with enforcing boundaries and reducing the daily pressure? Or would it just shift the problem to a new location?
If you’ve been in this kind of dynamic and chose to move, did it actually give you breathing room?
I know I need to step up and protect my marriage and my son’s well-being. But I feel trapped in a cycle of guilt and obligation, and I don’t know how to start breaking it.
Any advice, tough love, or personal stories are more than welcome.
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Honestly you have to take care of you and yours
Distance definitely helps a little, but it’s NOT a solution.
Her hold over you is mental, not physical. Distance does not erase the lifelong programming. And now with all the technology, it’s pretty much impossible to be “away” from someone.
Work with a therapist to create healthy boundaries.
Be easy on yourself. You don’t get over the programming overnight. It takes time, and it takes work.
I highly suggest therapy for yourself. You need to set firm, healthy boundaries with your mother, but it sounds like you need guidance on how to do that. And I say this as a people pleaser myself.
Moving isn’t going to help until you learn to tell your mother no… and mean it.
Your wife and your son are your family. Treat them as such.
Nothing you try will work until you decide you are willing to speak to her directly. Move wherever you want, but unless you respect your marriage enough to tell her not to, she will follow you.
Depends on how far you’re moving. We love 30 min from my in laws (and different towns) and it hasnt stopped them.
I feel trapped in a cycle of guilt and obligation, and I don’t know how to start breaking it.
It sounds like you need therapy, or at least to check out this sub’s book list. Distance isn’t going to make your mother call and text less, and if you don’t know how to set boundaries with her, you’ll just end up driving greater distances to be at her command, thus putting greater pressure on your time and, as a result, your marriage.
With all due respect, your mother is not the one ruining your marriage. Your inability to stand up to her, set firm boundaries and enforce consequences for breaking those boundaries are what is destroying your marriage.
You and your wife need to get into counseling together, and you need to do the work of getting yourself free of this mental hold your mother has on you or you will lose your family and be left with only your mother.
Okay so, you know this is very bad, it seems. I am going to take this opportunity to suggest “Will I Ever Be Enough?” by Dr. Karyl McBride and “Codependent No More”. You are indeed trapped in a cycle of guilt and obligation, and what sounds like some codependence. I feel for you, truly. It’s terrifying to know that one wrong move and your mother will withdraw her affection and care for you. Here’s the thing. You are now a mother. Would you ever have the expectations of your son that your mother has of you? I doubt it!
I think that moving sounds like a fine idea, but it will be totally fruitless if it’s not accompanied by you working to extricate yourself from the enmeshment you have with your mother. You need to be protecting your family. Think about it – do you want to look back in ten years, while spending time with your miserable mother, and fantasize about the family life you could have built with your wife?
Move farther away. Whenever invited to anything, defer to what your partner wants to do. Book activities several months ahead, so you have excuses for not going to things. And get counselling to try to figure out how you can stop people pleasing.
I have a 70-year-old mother and I’m a single child. Only child. My mother calls me for everything every day. It seems like wants me to walk a mile and a half down to her house because she’s having problems or something and it’s something new every day I see her 3 to 4 times a week it’ll never be enough. Please move to the next town. Enjoy your life while you can go visit her once a month get an aid for her.
Tell her you’re moving into a different state
You need therapy with someone who specializes in enmeshed relationships as you’re allowing your mother to destroy you, your wife, and your son by letting her call the shots. Distance doesn’t get any better as these JustNos have no shame, are selfish, and persistent.
Start with one “no”. Remember she will be ok, even if she d doesn’t like it.
Hold firm, dont back down on your “no”.
As someone in a WLW relationship, this would be terrible to endure from your partner’s perspective. You need to put some boundaries in place and drop the guilt. Neighboring town is not far enough. You need to be at least several hours away and make it clear there is no guest room scenario for your mom. Hotel. Always a Hotel. Stop with the daily calls. Do not interupt your time with your wife and son to communicate with your mom. It’s going to be hell to put up boundaries but you need to put your family first (you, wife, son). If you don’t take enough action you could destroy the family you have built just to keep your mom happy.
I don’t believe moving will do anything. We’ve seen here so many times before that the mother-in-law moves right behind you. Like others have said here you need therapy with somebody experienced with a emeshment. I’m sure you love your mom, but you have to put your wife and your baby first.
I’m (29F) currently healing from a similar type of enmeshed dynamic with my own mother (61F), who I haven’t spoken to on the phone for 6 weeks now and have texted minimally during that time. Like your mom, I believe my mom feels completely entitled to my time and sees my husband (31M) as a threat, since I played the role of emotional spouse to my mom for most of my life.
Unfortunately, in your situation, soft boundaries aren’t going to cut it. I’ve tried that with my own mom, and that has just led to me becoming re-entangled in my mom’s web of enmeshment because I fell for her guilt-tripping. If your mom were any other person (e.g., a friend, a boss, a coworker, etc.), would you tolerate her intrusive phone calls/texts and her guilt-tripping? Asking myself that question made me realize that the dynamic between my own mom and me was very unhealthy, and I decided that I wouldn’t tolerate that type of behavior from her. I don’t deserve that type of treatment, even if it’s from my own mom, and you likewise don’t deserve that type of treatment from your own mom either.
If you decide to go low-contact/no-contact with your mom (which should be a very deliberate decision on your part), be prepared to feel incredibly guilty for a few weeks. When I first put up my boundary with my mom, I kept asking myself, “Am I being too harsh? How could I do this to my own mom?” That’s the guilt that’s hardwired inside me to keep me enmeshed with my mom, and as time goes on and I process more of my own trauma, that guilt becomes quieter and quieter, and less frequent. Just a few days ago, my husband told me that I seem lighter and more joyful lately, and that made me realize just how trapped I felt in my relationship with my mom. I feel more free than ever to embrace myself, and I’m able to pour that positive energy into my marriage. I’m hoping someday I can reconnect with my mom, but I told her that I will consider reconnecting only if she consistently goes to therapy and bears tangible fruit from her therapy sessions.
Best wishes to you and your family, OP. You have the strength inside to say no to your mom and yes to your marriage and child.
The first step is acknowledging you need help, so you posting here is a great sign. That being said, it sounds like you’re at a cross roads so I’m going to lay it out in a way that hopefully clicks:
You can care more about your mothers feelings, or you can care more about your spouse, child. And yourself.
You can not care about both equally.
You either prioritize your mother or you prioritize your family.
Make your decision and lean into that decision 100%. Remember, you can’t have it both ways. Either your mother’s feelings or your whole family. Choose wisely.
Let’s re-phrase that title “you’re letting your mother ruin your marriage”. Not saying it to be mean. It’s just how you were brought up….to not rock the boat.
Move far far away! Start saying “no” to your mother. Say it loud and often.
Also. Try out of the fog
Everything you need to learn is here. You need to become unmeshed from your mother. She’s not going to like it. I would expect an extinction burst as well.
I would move across the country.
You are the one “destroying” your marriage. You need to be the one to deal with your mother effectively. That may mean going no contact with her. Until you decide to no longer put up with your mother’s antics, nothing will change. You could move across the world, and if your mother’s messages still disrupt your marriage, you still haven’t fixed the problem.
You get to say ‘no’ to your mother and have it respected. You get to hang up the call when it’s no longer productive. Yes, even to your mother. It’s scary and hard the first few times it happens. That’s called growing a spine. Your wife deserves it.
If she’s ever had keys or codes to your home, change them. She doesn’t deserve access to your wife’s safe space. Your wife deserves peace in her own home.
You also don’t get to complain to your wife about your mother’s antics. Don’t put that on her. Your wife isn’t your sounding board or your meat shield when it comes to your mother, and any other relatives who might be flying monkeys for her.
Don’t say to your mother that your wife doesn’t want x or doesn’t like x. That’s throwing your wife under the bus. You don’t want x or don’t like x. Those things don’t work for your family. If you need to vent or whine about your mother, get a therapist.
Why is your mother’s peace more important than your wife’s? Hint? It’s not. You’ve just been programmed to make her happy. You’re an adult now and don’t need to answer to your mother ever, let alone right away. Make her ring tone and vibration silent so you’re not bothered by her messages/calls. Get to them if, or when, you want to. When she complains, just tell her that you’re busy with your family and will communicate when you’re available. Don’t apologize, I know that’s hard not to do. It just gives your mother authority over you more power.
Your mother cares about her reputation in her community. You don’t have to. Her true nature will eventually.
Boundaries are for you and your behavior. You give other people rules to follow if they want to be a part of your life. Rule: Mom will only call/message once a week. Boundary: When mom calls more often, you don’t respond for at least 2 weeks. Rule: Mom doesn’t show up uninvited or without asking at least a week in advance. Boundary: When mom shows up uninvited, you don’t let her in the door. Yes, you really can do that.
Please go to some Ala-non meetings. Not sure if you are in a recovery program or avoiding alcohol. Ala-non meetings are for family and loved ones of alcoholics to understand how their drinking has impacted your life. It provides a very different perspective and is very valuable.
You mentioned guilt and obligation. Add in fear and you have all three elements of what is known as “FOG. All need to be addressed to move forward. If your, or your wife’s, employer has an Employee Assistance Program (EAP), use it to find a therapist to start the process.
Moving will help, as it means it takes more effort for her to turn up on your doorstep, but it’s a very small part of the solution. The majority of the solution is that you need to learn how to say no and apply consequences for her behavior. She will never stop if she doesn’t suffer any penalties for trying.
You will feel cruel and heartless at times, and that is exactly what you need to be. Soft boundaries are useless against her, because she only cares about her own wants. You need to set hard boundaries and enforce consequences for breaking them. You need to watch her tantrums, let her wear herself out, and then continue doing what you were going to do anyway. You need to get used to blocking her number so she can’t demand your attention at all times. You need to let her scream and cry when you tell her that you’re going to your wife’s family for Christmas this year. You need to threaten to have her trespassed if she starts pounding on your door, and then call the cops and follow through when she refuses to leave. You need to understand, truly understand, that the only power she has over you is the power that you give her, and that once you take that power back, you’ll see just how small and weak she really is.
You need to learn to say no or move far enough away that it’s not possible to easily drive over like 2+ hours
You need therapy. And what are your “boundaries”? Boundaries aren’t “Please don’t call me while I am at work”. They have consequences. “I cannot answer you while I am working, if you continue to call during these hours I will have to block your number for X weeks.” Then you follow through. It’s funny that your people-pleasing kicks in for your mother, but not your wife. Time to do the work OP.
You don’t need to move to take control of the situation. You need to develop boundaries. Let her text, let her call, let her melt down. No is a complete sentence. If she repeat dials you, temporarily block her number until you are ready to talk. You don’t need to provide any reason for why you can’t talk. Saying “I am busy” is sufficient. If she doesn’t accept your boundary, then this is a her problem and not a you problem to solve. Continue to hang up/block/walk away until she learns that you aren’t available.
Steps you need to take: Inform her of the boundary in direct and clear terms with simple language, like “I cannot talk between these hours on these days and this is not up for debate.” Don’t explain it, just repeat it. She does understand your words; she just doesn’t care that you’re saying them. Then you must enforce the boundary by not answering the calls or texts or blocking her if she repeat calls or texts you. I know this seems like it is hard, but it is not. Inform, enforce. She will learn and it may be easier than you expect.
Lastly, put yourself in therapy or counseling to learn even more effective techniques for boundary development and enforcement.
Oh lordy. Please at bare- minimum buy a book on boundaries. I purchased “The Book of Boundaries: Set the Limits That Will Set You Free” by Melissa Urban. Boundaries mean nothing in distance physically if you can’t distance emotionally as well.
You can set your boundaries by stating them first and then YOU are responsible for following through.
“Mom, the communication you expect from me is no longer working for me. I will call you on Thursdays at 7pm to check in, but outside of that I can’t always answer messages or calls. I need to prioritize the family I’ve created.”
If she guilt-trips you, that’s emotional abuse and therapy would be helpful up unpack why you feel responsible for your mother’s feelings or why you feel you’re obligated to be her emotional support person. Her guilt-trips in response to your Boundaries are emotional blackmail and you’re being abused in this way.
“Mom, I understand your upset, but I am prioritizing my family right now. I need you to respect that and support me. I love you and I need more space or I will have to block you until Thursday.”
Look up Dr.Jerry Wise and his content on enmeshment and “family wifi.” Dr.Wise describes how to cope as Adult Children of Alcoholics as well as Adult Children of Narcissistic Parents.
You’re living your life at your mom’s mercy. She needs to find a different way to fulfill her own needs without you. You being avaliable is enabling her
You will still have daily pressure. She will phone. If you are further away, the visits might last longer. I am a married woman of 20 years sitting in my car at a park considering leaving my husband because of a last straw today with his mom. I say this gently, you need to protect her peace. You need to step up. You can fix this without running, just woman up! Maybe a counselor? But above all, learn to say no. Guard your heart and protect your wife’s!!! You can fix it. Good luck. I hope you are married for a very long time. Love is precious.
Here’s my advice:
You need to talk to someone that is neutral in all of this mess and not feel judge. You also need to learn coping skills when your mother starts acting up. I strongly recommend long physical distance. You can’t drive hours everyday to visit her so that takes care of one problem. She will want to call you more. I get that. Turn your phone off. Set a schedule and stick to it.
I live 10 minutes away from my controlling parents. I don’t see them often. Why? Because they want to dictate how I parent my son. I stopped visiting and now they have learned to back off. My Dad still tries here and there but I hold my own. I don’t have to follow them because they are my parents. I set boundaries and stick to them. If they don’t follow my rules, I don’t see them. It’s up to them if they want to see me. If you can’t move far away, then don’t. However you need to stand up for your family now before you lose them because of your very selfish mother
I think you already know that your mother can’t hurt your marriage unless you allow her to. I’m not saying that to put shame on you or make you feel bad, I’m saying (what you already know) that YOU need to figure out how to set and hold a boundary.
“No” is a really clear answer. You’re not responsible for how she reacts to that.
Therapy isn’t for everyone, but I’ve personally found it to be a really helpful tool for discussing, practising, and adjusting how I set boundaries.
You could move to the moon, but if you’re still picking up her calls or explaining why you didn’t, it won’t matter.
My MIL was similar for the first few years of our marriage (until I cut her out of my life completely). We lived close by and it was a nightmare. It didnt improve until we moved about 4 hours away and got even better when we moved 9 hours away lol! I agree with the other comments about it NOT being a complete solution. It’s a great tool but her behavior wont change just because of the distance (unfortunately with text messaging and social media and all that). Distant plus a healthy conversation about boundaries, and maybe a therapist could help you with that! Wishing you luck
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Get into therapy.
You are not people pleasing.
You are making yourself and your wife miserable.
And by extension, your son.
You need boundaries yesterday.
Your poor wife.
Are you willing to set and STICK to the boundaries you set for her. Unless you are, there is no hope for you. Each time you give in, she wins!
To answer the base question, yes, physical distance helps, but I’d go way further than just a neighboring town. Anything under an hour is awfully close. I highly suggest going a whole state, if possible, as a minimum. Distance like that is an easy excuse until you’ve managed therapy and boundary placements.
Y’all need therapy. Need to learn how to set boundaries and keep them. Your marriage is doomed without it. Your family is your child and your wife. Your Mother is just a relative now. You need to protect your family.
I am a people pleaser too but I’ve learned to set boundaries and it’s easier to do it with certain people.
When you do set boundaries, especially HARD ONES, it feels bad. It feels like you’re being too mean.
And that’s something I had to get over. That I had to be “mean” in order to give myself peace.
It’s not actually that mean. It’s breaking a habit that had been mean and inappropriate in the first place whether it’s a habit that you had yourself or someone else had.
There will be push back. There will be calls for compromises or the boundary to be moved or obliterated all together.
But only YOU can hold this line in the sand. Keep redrawing it because only you can enforce it. If you don’t enforce it, she’ll walk over that line and into your life again to ruin it in multiple ways.
To be frank, the consequence of not enforcing these boundaries is your own suffering.
I encourage you to go talk to someone, especially a therapist, about how you can get help to enact and uphold these boundaries. It’s not easy doing it alone but it is something you have to do.
If you move further away without any other change, you’ll just have a longer trip catering to your mom.
You need to sit down and decide what’s most important in your life. Once you’ve done that, I’d suggest you get the assistance of a therapist to help you set boundaries in place.
Your wife’s patience won’t last forever.
Stop being on call, and don’t succumb to pressure to answer her in the moment.
“Thanks for the invitation. Bonnie and I have not finalized our plans for [next weekend, Thanksgiving, etc.]. I’ll have to get back to you in a few days.”
“Mom, that does not work for us. We’ll have to wait and see you next Tuesday like we discussed.”
“Mom, I cannot always be on call to reply to your messages in real time. You need to lower your expectations on my response time because it has become impossible for me to keep up.”
If she melts down, that is on her. It is not on you. Warn her that she cannot speak to you that way, and if she continues just end the conversation and try again later.
Look up JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) and stop doing it.
Look up golden child vs black sheep.
Look up grey rock.
Learn how to politely put up boundaries to protect your sanity and your marriage.
Moving to the next town will change nothing if you don’t work on the rest of it.
You need therapy and to stop making her make you feel guilty for saying No or your going to loose your son and wife
Boundaries without enforced consequences are useless. You have got to Find your spine, shine it up, and let your mama bear out, to protect your wife and child. You are no longer your mother‘s subservient little girl. You are a wife/partner/mother yourself! You need to put your nuclear family first. Trying to keep your mother happy is not worth losing your family over. Suggestion: go to counseling to learn how to speak your mind to your mother, and how to lay boundaries, and enforce consequences. You should not have to uproot your family because you cannot tell your mother to back off.
You can’t do a soft boundary with your mother. It has to be strong and hard. Go to therapy if you need the tools to help you.
I always say that you’re probably tiptoeing around your mother because you fear backlash but if you don’t enforce this boundary you will still receive negativity from her. Might as well get negativity with a side of peace.
Farther.
Go farther.
Nothing is going to help with this situation until you grow a spine and start protecting your space, your spouse, and your family.
You and your wife need to decide what your relationship with your family should look like. How often do you talk? Text? Visit? What holidays do you keep for you or wife’s family? Once you have a plan, then you communicate the plan. It is YOUR job to manage your mother and right now you are failing. You are failing your wife, your child, your marriage, and yourself.
Part of the plan needs to be what happens when your mom stomps all over your plan. She only owns your schedule because you are letting her.
So, you decide Thanksgiving is with wife’s family. You tell mom. She freaks. You tell her that is the decision and it is no longer up for discussion. She whines. You say “mom. We’ve made our decision. It is final. Can you respect that?” Then, when she doesn’t, you tell her that is too bad and you will give her some time to reflect and then you leave. If she calls/texts, block her.
Training her to respect you as an adult is going to suck, just like a toddler who has learned that whining works if they are obnoxious enough but you need to do it to save your marriage.
Good luck.
Nothing will help until you’ve mastered the skills of saying no to her without justifying it or feeling bad. Find some assertiveness coaching near you and go do it, your wife would be right in leaving unless you invest in her and your son.
Moving further away without addressing the issue is just running away from it and hoping that the problems will just disappear without you having to do any of the work; they won’t. Be proactive or lose your chosen family.
OP can I please strongly suggest getting the book “adults children of emotionally immature parents” reading it was insanely eye opening for me and teaches you how to deal with the guilt trips, the fights, the gaslighting and how to set boundaries. It’s only around $10 on Amazon even cheaper on kindle.
the people you should be pleasing are your wife and son
Learn. To. Say. No. and mean it. You are a grown-ass adult with a family. Your mother no longer controls your life!
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Move across the country or find your backbone. Support your spouse and put her first. This isn’t going to end well unless you put your own family first.
Hello! Welcome. It’s so nice to hear from the adult child and not the child in-law!
When I was trying to figure this out with my DH, I did a ton of research and I ended up writing myself what I call the MIL survival guide. I can’t access my MIL survival guide from work, but I know exactly what you are talking about/going through. I’ll try to give you a good approximation of my research and advice I gave myself.
But first I’ll tell you there is hope. I was your wife in this situation, ready to leave DH if he did not recognize that his fear of displeasing his mother was ruining our marriage. But through therapy and hard work, he came to understand himself, their dynamic, and change himself. Our marriage has never been better. We are more in love now than we were 20 years ago. I am VLC with his family (no calls, no texts, see them once or twice a year, we don’t stay with them, I always have means to leave – my own car) and he is LC (every other day calls, sees them 4-5 times per year). BTW my MIL is catholic as well.
Back to the why: Your mother trained you to manage her emotions for her. She trained you to believe that her displeasure was THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD. She trained you to feel guilt whenever you displeased her and GUILT IS PAIN. You want to avoid that pain no matter what. There is nothing that matters more. It is your prime directive. You came to believe that the world would end if she was displeased. And when you were young, this defense mechanism (of always giving her what she wants, anticipating her needs, side stepping her emotional land mines) may have actually been integral to your survival. After all, how are you going to get your basic needs met when your mother is having a tantrum. So, what you must learn now (through therapy probably) is that your survival is no longer dependent upon managing your mother’s emotions. It is no longer dependent upon never displeasing her. You are an adult who can make your own choices. You are an adult who can reject your programming.
Her emotions are not your responsibility and they never have been. SHE ALONE is responsible for her emotions. She is responsible for her actions. She is responsible for enduring the consequences of her actions.
You have a choice to make. Your choice is to consciously decide that you are going to continue to remain in an extremely unhealthy relationship with your mother, behaving like the child she trained you to be, sacrificing your marriage and your child on the altar of mom…or you can decide to put in the hard work to reprogram your brain, to permanently shut off the buttons she installed in you. You will have to recognize, accept, and behave as if her reactions to her unmet expectations and her responsibility. You will have to choose to put yourself, your child, and your marriage FIRST!
Good luck! Again, I am so happy you’re here. I hope you choose to put in the work. I hope you choose the family you have made. I see good things for you. I think you want to change.
Look at the side bar for resources. If you start therapy, find a therapist specializing in enmeshment/narcissistic parent and read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.
If you cannot say no to your mother, then moving might be a good thing. I would think it would be easier to pull your courage and strength together and face off with her. Tell her to back off.
Look. As a people pleaser, you’re making a choice to please the person you don’t live with over the two people who do live with you. If you still live in the same state, the problem is going to exist because you can’t get past your own feelings. Are you really willing to lose your child for your mom? You’re living proof of what happens with prolonged contact with her, do you want that for your child?
If you’re really considering this, you need to go nuclear. That’s not to say you can’t have a relationship, but make sure she doesn’t know your address, and don’t give it to anyone either.
Get set up with a therapist AND couples counselor because your marriage is already in trouble. Also start making a commitment to attend al-anon meetings.
If you rock the boat, everyone will turn on you. See this story. But you are in a situation where you can’t win. You need to figure out what is best for your child, and what’s best for your child is for healthy parents and space from grandma.
It all helps. Moving away from her, drawing even the minimum of boundaries. Therapy would help you a lot but you need to see a therapist who deals with enmeshement.
Your wife and your child deserve more. You can break the cycle if you want to and work at it
i think some therapy individual and couples would greatly help here. your priorities need to be the family that you created, that is your immediate family now, mom and everyone else is extended family. it’s great that you want to prioritize them but i am reading here you just simply do not have the skills to do so at this moment. recognizing the issue and wanting to change it is step one and honestly half the battle. next step is to work with a professional to give you the tools you need to set and enforce boundaries without guilt. this will be much more impactful than just a physical move.
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Move and dont give her the address. When you want to see her, you go over, and you leave when you want to. You need to leave her high and dry.
“Soft” boundaries are not boundaries. They are firm and require no explanation or defense. Don’t let her ignore them by setting consequences when they are violated. Never feel guilty about protecting your peace.
You should move and you should start enforcing boundaries now. Therapy will help you. But as you’ll see in this sub, boundaries without consequences are requests. So, tell your mom you won’t be available on X day. She texts/hounds you? Block her on your phone until the day is over. She freaks out about that? Tell her you will not talk to her until she can have a respectful conversation.
Your wife has a you problem. Moving isn’t going to change how you act and react to your mother, it just means you have to drive further to fulfill your guilt trips. I’m sorry, I don’t know you will enough to tell you how to grow a spine. Your family dynamic is tough.
If you need to take baby steps, it may be easier to enforce boundaries when they are meant to protect someone else. With this in mind, your wife may subconsciously BE yourself. This sucks, but if your find it difficult to enforce boundaries for her, shift to protecting your child and those recovering alcoholics.
Include your wife on this strategy and work as a team against the problem. The problem ours not your mother in this beginning. The problem is your need to give in to her. Reflect together on your failures, speak them out loud yourself where your wife can hear. Celebrate the shit out of small successes.
Giving it to you straight, this will poison your marriage. Your wife needs you to make her the priority, along with your child.
Boundaries are not for your Mum, they are for YOU. What will YOU do or not do when she texts/calls you repeatedly during the day? You cannot control her behavior, only your own.
Consider therapy to help lessen the fear, obligation, and guilt. This is a hard pattern to break if she has manipulated you from childhood into caring for her emotions and needs (which children should not be doing). Perhaps bring your wife into therapy too – it will show her that you recognize the tension this is creating and show her that you love her / want to prioritize her and her needs.
The easy truth / hard truth is that you have all the power to change this. It’s time to start setting and more importantly HOLDING some boundaries. ❤️
You say, give it to me straight and I will …. I strongly object to the title of your post; your mom isn’t ruining your marriage, you are.
You clearly recognize what is going on with this enmeshment, which is a huge first step toward resolution. I think the heart of this is the people pleasing personality and it saddens me that you link it to making up for your sexuality. Mom doesn’t get to behave like an over-whelming steamroller because she’s not happy about your sexuality.
Your clear awareness of what she is doing and recognition that it is wrong suggests you’re in therapy — I hope so. The next step is what to do.
First off, stop prioritizing your mother over your wife and son – they are the higher priority.
Stop worrying what mom thinks or feels – she gets to manage her own emotions, and that means tantrums. Ignore tantrums.
Try to avoid JADE: justifying, arguing, defending, or explaining.
Info diets are a thing. Mom isn’t entitled to all info in your life. Shutting down unwanted conversations is managing a boundary.
Resist allowing your stated boundaries to be conversations – they are not up for debate and Mom doesn’t get a vote or a voice – see JADE above. “We are not available for Christmas this year.” When Mom tantrums and starts with guilt, see all of the above. It isn’t a conversation, it is a statement. Make your statement, watch her explode, make your statement again. If she continues and doesn’t manage her emotions, leave the house, hang up the phone … EVERY TIME.
Lastly, you ask what helps enforcing a boundary – consequences, painful consequences applied consistently when the boundary is over-stepped. Boundaries without consequences are useless.
And as painful as it is, please stop minimizing yourself, expecting your wife and son to go along with being minimized in order to ‘keep the peace.’ Are you feeling peaceful? There isn’t any peace.
It is hard, I know because I did it. But I remember clearly thinking, ‘Just because I put up with her (my Mom) doesn’t mean my husband signed up for that.’ So I started there. Find a place to start and take one step at a time.
Please update us.
OP, You and only you have the power to fix this. It’s wonderful that you will GET the opportunity to both free yourself and keep your family. You and your mom are stuck in this severe codependent relationship, like the fish parasite that becomes the tongue of the fish it attaches to, after it destroys the fishes real tongue. That’s what’s happening bc you’re afraid. What will happen if you block mom? Drama, yes. Yelling, yes. Flying monkeys telling you you’re wrong, so what! The earth won’t swallow you up nor stop rotating, I promise. You’ll look back when you’re in your late 30s seeing your wife & child having their life over there while you have Thanksgiving dinner with your siblings and Mother, forever. If you want to look back at a life lived being a side character in your mom’s life movie and nothing more, move 20 minutes away and everything stays the same. I’m frank bc this is it, you need to do therapy quick and specific for codependents like you or you stay a pet, just how your mom wants you. Oh, and do you want the same for your son’s life? It’ll happen.
Nothing will help until you set hard boundaries. You’re not people pleasing, bc you’re making many people miserable, including yourself. You need therapy, and to draw a hard line in the sand.
I dont mean to sound harsh, I really don’t. I can’t imagine how hard it is for you. But as someone in your wife’s shoes, with a husband who does this and thinks along the same lines as you are (he’s one of two sons, and the other is mentally disabled, so he is constantly apologizing/appeasing them through his actions in order to “live up to” their expectations),she is 100% right, this will destroy your marriage if you dont do the work.
Good luck to you.
We’ve always lived in another city from my MIL so not exactly the same but my thoughts are…probably not if she’s as enmeshed as you make it sound. My ILs are about 1.5hrs away and we still dealt with unannounced visits multiple times a week 🙃
Idk if every enmeshed JN would do that but mine certainly did. Distance did not help. In fact she felt more entitled to spend the night because of it. She would show up at dinner time and expect to spend the night because she didn’t want to drive back home late. Only clear boundaries from my husband got that shit to end. If you ask me, we STILL see her too frequently but at least now it’s on our terms.
So unless you’re moving somewhere where it’s physically unrealistic for her to make a round trip, I wouldn’t count on it. Not trying to fear monger. Just sharing my experience.
Moving out seems to be a good idea, more further away than the neighbour town. Do not tell her until you have moved out. Seems harsh but if you do tell her before , she will harass you trying to convince you to stay.
you need therapy. Your mother rised you in a way her behaviour has been normalised , you ve been conditioned to prioritize her , please her and bend to her demands at all cost / at your nuclear family ‘s expense. This family dynanic needs to stop but the good thing is you seem to realise you need to change. That’s the first step. You just need guidance and
setting boundaries with consequences when not respected ie time out.
Limit your texts/ calls answering and visits. Set x amount of calls/ texts / visit per week and stick to it. See and set the amount with your wife .
work on your guilty feelings. Standing up , calling her out , setting boundaries, prioritizing your family ,not caving to demands, not visiting all the time doesn’t mean you reject or don’t love your parents . It’s about building healthy foundation of relationship.
have a serious conversation with your wife. A honest one. Where you are , your future , her expectations and else. Set goals, priority etc…
Your mother’s behaviour might not change but you can change yours. For you, your wellbeing and your nuclear family. Good Luck !
More distance will help, but unless you’re like 3+ hours away you’ll probably always be living in fear. Even if you go NC, you’ll be afraid of seeing her out and about. You have to disengage with her and work on yourself to fix this. She won’t change
You need to live farther away than to a neighboring town. If you aren’t willing to say no to your mom to protect your schedule and family and sanity, then you need to be a far enough distance that you can use it as justification for not seeing her as often. For me, that would be a minimum three hour drive
Get therapy.
Start saying no to your mother, and don’t back down. It will cause you anxiety and guilt, but then you need to learn how to deal with those feelings rather than always giving into your mother.
When your mother throws a fit, pouts, etc…. you don’t give in. Ultimately it comes down to you’re going to have to figure out how to be okay with your mother being upset, or you’re going to lose your wife and be sharing custody of your son. Then you’ll likely continue this dynamic with your mother and it will harm any future romantic relationships, too.
Start putting distance between you by not picking up every time she calls and taking longer to contact her back.
Grey rock and info diet. “Oh we’re good”. “Oh not much”. “Oh the usual”. “Oh busy busy”. “Oh work and school ya know.” “So much rain lately!”
You don’t let her ignore your boundaries. If you tell her “Thanksgiving doesn’t work for us, we can see you the Saturday after” and she shows up on your porch on Thursday… she doesn’t get allowed in.
When she tells you you “have to” come to Christmas, you say “That doesn’t work for us” and then you don’t engage in the tantrums. You hang up, stop discussing it, and don’t talk about it anymore. “Asked and answered” or “I can tell you’re getting upset so I’ll let you go.”
If you move, but she can still easily show up at your place (and you’ll let her in), you’ll still let her overtake all holidays, you’re still driving to her to spending a lot of time with her, and you’re still talking and texting all day long… it’s not going to change much.
More distance won’t help with the constant texting. You have to cut the cord maybe for a little while so she can get the hint. Sounds like she is a narcissist and needs the world to recover around her. Make a decision which is more important to you. Your wife or your mother. Easy choice actually. Mom will be butthurt for a little while and will lash out but ride the storm out. Hold your ground for your family.
Space, and therapy for you. Maybe some al-anon or adult children of alcoholics meetings. You are sacrificing your family for your mother.
In my experience (similar to you), only moving so far away she could not drive to us in a day has had a significant impact on her showing up. At one point we were an hour away and it didn’t stop her. Now we are about a 30 hour drive away and wonder of wonders, she’s not here constantly.
We also downsized our house during our move so that we could not host any overnight guests in the kind of comfort our boomer parents expect, and made it clear that we would not be hosting anyone overnight. Since we moved a couple years ago, she has been continuously talking about moving here too, but hasn’t taken any actual practical steps. She visits maybe 3-4 times a year, stays at a local hotel, and generally is way more tolerable.
It’s you, your wife, and your son. Everything outside of that is noise. Protect your core. Much 🫶
Please look up Ken Adams and his work on enmeshment. Find a therapist who understands this and can help you individuate. Not just for your marriage to survive, but for you to thrive.
You need therapy ASAP. As a recovering people pleaser I know it’s really hard to create boundaries but think of it as you are doing this for the health and well being for your son. You do not want to raise him being unable to say no to people. And you do not want to lose your family over his situation. It will not improve unless you get help. And there are therapists who specialize in LGBTQ guilt and people pleasing that was done to survive in anti-LBGTQ families. Good luck.
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You need to move at least 3 or 4 hours away to change the dynamic if you are too scared to confront your mom and let her deal with her own hurt feelings. She will still interfere and be intrusive, and require holiday visits, but the drop-ins should decrease.
You have to decide what matters more to you—your marriage and son or your relationship with your mother.