A friend of mine escaped Cuba just before Castro. They were able to sell their business, hide their cash, get refugee status in the U.S. it was a complicated process.
I think primary concerns are security and financial. When your mental and physical health is at extreme risk and you can’t trust the law. Or when you can’t trust the economy and your savings lose value in front of your eyes, it’s easier buying a one way ticket. That’s just not way to live
My mother and her parents left bosnia in 1991 when the iron curtain came down and yugoslavia started falling. They saw the whole conflict and genocides coming as the Serbs and the Croatians were even under yugoslavia, treating the bosniaks worse.
My great grandma fled the USSR during the pogroms and settled in Germany. The day Hitler was elected she and her husband starting packing and made a break for the US.
I don’t know if you’ve heard of Prophet Song by Paul Lynch but it was the 2023 Booker Prize winning novel that explores this question (set in a fictitious version of Ireland that has been overtaken by a fascist regime).
Speaking for my grandmother she left Hungary when the hospital she worked at took a direct hit around the October Revolution. It was amazing what she and her family survived for love of country before this.
The police just started harassing people on the streets after one of the protests in Belarus. Some of them got killed, some injured, thousands were imprisoned (and tortured there). It is still happening. Also, I kinda was prepared for that psychologically for a long time before the violence erupted, because it was concealed for years. So when everything happened, I just took the first morning flight and left for another country. This is in two words, the story is a bit more complicated, obviously.
Right time was in 1980 when the Tonton Macoute came for her husband, a political dissident.
That was the last time her and the kids saw him
And in the case of my first girlfriend, the daughter of a South Vietnamese general, they left the country in a small boat.when Saigon fell, During the crossing, the smugglers told her parents: either you give up all your gold, or we’ll rape the women and throw you into the sea.
They arrived in France with nothing.
The father, a doctor, was then able to work, but not for the same salary as the French. He died a few years later, plunging the whole family into poverty. Once in a while, her mother Ould tell about what she had left in Vietnam
I left the US in March. I learned from my grandparents, leave before- better to regret moving than not. I have an autistic child and my husband is European. Now, we are finding our way here. I’m keeping money in various accounts, enough to fly to Uruguay with inflated ticket prices and three months rent if things go south here too. I can laugh and tell myself I overreacted, my pride can handle that but I cannot survive if my family is hurt because of my inaction.
FWIW legal immigration today is vastly more difficult to do than before, unless you’re fleeing a first world country which the US still is, diplomatically at least. Otherwise, everyone is closing their borders more and more, even countries like Canada.
Not me but I remember asking my mom why she left the Philippines in the 70s. She explained about the Marcos regime and how he declared martial law. She said when that was announced, she knew she had to leave. She had been working towards moving, anyway, but she said that was her cue to hurry it up.
You’ll never know when the right time is, but you’ll definitely know when it’s too late.
Edit: Since this did numbers I’ll just say this.
Listen. It’s not time to flee just yet.
We’ve gotta stand together and resist.
Arm yourselves with all of your rights, with knowledge, with courage, with friends and comrades, and with weapons as insurance today in hopes that they aren’t necessary tomorrow.
We have the people. We have the money. We control coastal trade and we have allies in Canada, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, and Europe. We are stronger than them, smarter than them and better than them.
We are the majority, and we cannot afford to be silent any longer. Hit the streets. Protest. Make them as afraid of the wrath of the people as they should be. Now is the time to speak as one. And if speaking softly doesn’t work we will reach for the big stick. Let the fascists and corporate oligarchs know that we will burn it all down before we surrender our lives and rights.
Take a page from MLK, a page from Rosa Parks, and another page from Malcom X.
Be ready to fight for your states. Let it be known that there is no United States without the Constitution.
I left the US in 2021. With a knowledge of history and pattern recognition skills, the signs were there. I hoped I was wrong, but deep down, I knew I wasn’t because i was raised in the far right evangelical world, and i know how they operate.
I’m still trying to convince my few liberal family members to seriously look for a way out, but it’s not easy.
I mean, y’all are assuming that the most vulnerable have the means to pull up stakes and head for the border. The best I can do for myself is back up north and a few hours’ drive to the Canadian border—and I’m exceedingly privileged in that respect.
I’m from Myanmar/Burma. Most of us young people left the country when they enacted the conscription law. Now, you can’t leave the country unless you’ve done military service, which in this case means until you die because there’s a civil war going on and they need more meat for the meat grinder.
We left Ukraine in 2011. I suppose, we did it as soon as we got immigration visas. Started the immigration process when it became clear that the dear leader (Yanukovych) was imminently returning to power. We got lucky – it took us just over a year to leave.
My grandpa spent 2 years in prison for organizing a worker’s strike against the socialist regime in Poland. Everyone in the family was looking to leave once he got released from prison.
Thankfully, some years later the 1989 revolution happened and we were able to return.
Two sets of my great-parents fled before World War I, which really shows some good instincts on their part. One was in the Austrian Army, as allies he could see war possibly ramping up by Germany. He knew he would be sent to fight on a side he felt was wrong. It is said he did not like the Kaiser. So he got fake papers, taught his 4 children how to speak Ukrainian and they escaped to Canada. All of this was a big risk! To this day we are not sure if we are the result of illegal immigration or if Grandma’s maiden name is even correct. She continued the game by being Ukrainian her whole life and celebrating Ukrainian Christmas. Given the anti German/Austrian sentiment after both wars, I suspect they just kept on pretending and still used the fake papers. Her father died within a year of settling here. A child was born on British waters during the trip here so she may have had dual citizenship.
The other great grandfather was German. They were scared that would be sent to war. They found the Kaiser unpalatable. He and his brother ran before WWI as well. He settled here in Canada, his brother in USA. They both got married fairly quickly. They met up a couple years later and discovered they were married to full sisters by some freak chance. The American side one generation later ran a very successful company. My grandfather met his cousin towards the end of his life, they called themselves brothers as they were the result of two brothers marrying two sisters. Double cousins. They looked like each other.
I can tell you this. Prepare your backup plan. Having Us passport it is easier. I grew up in the Soviet times through the collapse of the Union and wild 90s. Went to USa in 1999 as a student but decided i don’t want to stay there. Did not feel i can live in that country. Just didn’t like the way of living. So i went back to my homeland and many folks thought i’m crazy. But i love my country and really hoped back then things will change. But i decided i will have a backup and took the opportunity to get a legal status in Germany while i do not like it here much. But being in IT makes it easier a bit. 2020 showed us in Belarus we are fucked for another generation. Likely i had my german permit so i moved my family leaving lots of things behind and started kind of new life. While i still wait for the time i can go back, the fact i had a backup helped me to escape the risk of imprisonment and made my kids and wife live in a more secure environment. At least for now. Atm i’m thinking of a next backup plan. Many people are afraid of recession. I’m freaking scared of war. And it may come to Europe. To keep the story short. Just make sure you have a safe backup and make sure you can use it in time
When my parents decided it was time to leave Saigon (1979) and told us we’re going to go see Grandma and we’re going to leave tonight but you can’t tell anyone and you have to be real quiet
I didn’t escape – The authoritarian dictatorship did not survive me. My uncle escaped earlier. He just went off-ship in Havana for a stroll and decided to not reboard the freighter he was a sailor on.
My grandad left Poland after he was thrown in a concentration camp and escaped (he was very clever and bilingual in German). Made it to the UK. He was 16 in 1939.
When I went to the market and found nothing at all but bones. When I was pointed at with a gun to my face to be robbed for the umpteenth time. When one of my neighbours got shot, hearing his relatives screaming. When kids died around me in protests. When we got tear gassed and shot at by the National Guards. When the Dictator was dancing Salsa in mandatory national transmission while he celebrated the death of protesters.
I left Venezuela in 2016 and it still fucking hurts.
My family and I got out late. But the older family members have talked about how they should’ve gotten out when the government started talking about restricting travel OUT of the country, because that was also around the same time journalists, academics, and even students started disappearing.
Possible Trigger Warning. This is a small but significant part of my late father’s life.
My late father was a young child during the Spanish Civil War. He was the youngest of a large family. During the war he lost 10 siblings, some to bombs (his 8 year old sister suffocated under the rubble, other family members died to illness, others to injuries).
During the fall of Barcelona, my uncle who had the audacity to fight against Franco, walked with approximately half a million to one million people to the French border. My uncle was placed in a concentration camp. My uncle was unable to escape from the concentration camp. I think the only reason he survived was he 18 years old and healthy. When he finally returned to his small town he told off the town priest and a couple of nuns. He denounced his religion. This was a big deal during that time in history. He returned to Barcelona and against all odds became a successful businessman. My aunts never spoke to him again.
When the fascists won, the reprisals began. My father’s two remaining sisters (teens) were raped multiple times.
When my father was in his late teens he realised that there wasn’t a future for him in Spain so he worked his way across the world on a Greek freighter. He remained Catholic and kept in touch with all of his remaining family (immediate and extended). In Canada, he eventually met my mum (Protestant) and they had a good marriage. Religion was never an issue. I admired my father as he wasn’t embittered nor bigoted. I often asked him how he could not be bitter. And he helped me with explaining his reasoning and philosophy.
As a child I lived in Spain for 4 years during two different time periods. Once during the end of the Franco era. One of my first languages was Valenciano (sp?) and I received corporal punishment for speaking Valenciano while attending school. This was normal throughout Spain. I learned Spanish quickly. I believe corporal punishment is child abuse and after two weeks in school I refused to attend any schools in Spain.
Growing up in Canada I never bothered to talk about Spain to friends or classmates. I didn’t believe in intergenerational trauma. I now do believe intergenerational trauma does exist and had a lot of therapy to deal with it. When I was young adult I vowed to never set foot in Spain again. Too much emotional pain and bloodshed for me. Obviously with therapy and maturity I changed my mind and I have been to Spain numerous times. I despise fascism and do not believe violence is the answer to anything. As did my parents and their parents.
ETA: Ironically my maternal grandfather was an RCAF pilot and numerous other of my Canadian side of the family also fought against the Nazis during World War 2.
It was during the Russian elections in 2000, when it seemed like the worst option was going to win. We had no idea what would happen (and none of us expected a war with fucking Ukraine) but we didn’t want to stick around to find out. Took another few years to actually get out, though.
When my best friend disappeared after criticizing the government online. No warning, no trial, no news. Just gone. That’s when I knew — if I stayed, it was only a matter of time before it was me.
For my family, when my grandfather was picked up by men in uniform while he was Christmas shopping with my mom and aunt. He told them he just needed to talk them and sent them to continue shopping. ( 1971 ) They were in their teens when this happened. They never saw him again. We have no idea where his body is, as people who my family suspected who knew, took the secret to their grave. Growing up, we were told he was in the States. They shielded us from the truth so we won’t talk about it as kids.
I knew it was time when my university professor was arrested mid-lecture for simply mentioning democracy. It hit me hard — no matter how much I loved my country, it didn’t love us back.
My grandfather, the bravest man I have ever known, fled Germany shortly before the Nuremberg Laws were passed in late 1935. He had been a lawyer and had arranged everyone’s passports, hidden some gold away, and established a place for them to flee. The judiciary was already under control of the regime. He took his wife and five children and crossed France into Belgium, and by 1936 he was applying for asylum to multiple countries, including the US where he knew people in the Embassy. He was summarily denied.
As they began invading Belgium in May of 1940, the family fled along the coast on foot, separating children and adult so as not to all be traveling together, hoping their odds were better . My grandmother and my two aunts were caught a few days into the trip and sent to the gas chambers at Treblinka. The eldest son, Mikhael, was caught foraging food by the Gestapo in southern France and summarily executed on the spot. My father, who was nine, his younger brother Joseph, and my grandfather fled into northern Spain and were hidden by the remnants of the Zamoristas in Catalonia. Joseph developed pneumonia and died somewhere in northern Spain. My grandfather and father were smuggled into Portugal, onto a boat, and eventually made it to New Palestine. After the war, my grandfather had had enough of the Zionists, and he was finally granted a US immigration visa and came here in 1947. I was born on American soil in 1961. I grew up hearing the stories.
I was born in USSR, watched it collapsed when I was 7. Getting out for me was never a question “when it’s right” but “when I’m able”. By the time I was 21 I was legally orphaned, graduated cum laude from the best college in the country, but my English wasn’t good enough to qualify for international graduate school program. I spend another year in a local graduate program while paying to a lab colleague to teach me English after hours. Nobody believed I will go through with my intention to enroll into grad program in Ohio State University, Russia at the time was at peak economic growth, the government was pumping so much money into science and technology, that former USSR expatriates were coming BACK from US under the promises to be local science superstars. It never fooled me. It was very clear that those programs were purely for decorum and the processes were not meant to be fair or merit-based. Everybody was telling me what a fool I was to leave “clean” and beautiful Moscow metropolis for Midwest. I landed in Columbus, Ohio in 2006 with $300, never came back.
15 years later when the first bombs were dropped on Ukraine, panic settled in. My friends abandoned their businesses, properties and families to get out. My cousin, a male of military age, stayed until the conscription was announced. Due to geographical luck (our town is a few dozen miles from the border) he managed to get a last minute train ticket and crossed the border to Kazakhstan 3 years ago.
Did I see this catastrophe coming back when I left 2006? No, no one thought it could get this bad. Russia was the best it’s ever been in 2006 and it still sucked for those in lower economic class. It was always that people like me were not meant to have any future there. I took no joy in my decision, it was made out of desperation, and if I knew the struggles awaiting me I doubt I’d have the courage.
Imagine how it felt on November 6th 2024, after spending two decades getting the coveted US passport, to wake up in the 2nd iteration of Trump country. You think the catastrophic collapse can’t happen here? Erosion of civility happens slowly, but the system is collapsing in front of you and no one can do anything about it now.
When they arrested members of the opposition party for holding a primary.
When police stormed and shut down headquarters of the only newspaper still critical of the government.
When non violent protestors were given longer sentences than violent convicts for having posters in their backpacks.
When the heads of government were one by one replaced by toads with neither qualifications nor experience, purely based on their ass kissing rhetoric.
When they start passing legislation that you know will hurt people, and they don’t care.
When an extra panel of judges were suddenly appointed above the supreme court, with final decision on interpreting the law.
When caring about it makes you loose sleep and starts to affect your work quality.
It was never one thing, but you just see it getting worse and worse step by step, and you make a judgement call. The timing and reasons will be different between all your friends and family.
Comments
Do you have regrets about it?
When there was no electricity, no water, the police attacking people. And the inflation was like 1000%.
When the national police force began arresting judges who disagreed with the supreme leader.
Might be a hot take: if everyone who could afford to leave did so, the most vulnerable of us would be in even worse shape…
Obviously you need to do what’s best for you/your family. But you could always stay and fight the good fight
A friend of mine escaped Cuba just before Castro. They were able to sell their business, hide their cash, get refugee status in the U.S. it was a complicated process.
I think primary concerns are security and financial. When your mental and physical health is at extreme risk and you can’t trust the law. Or when you can’t trust the economy and your savings lose value in front of your eyes, it’s easier buying a one way ticket. That’s just not way to live
It’s weird being an American right now. I feel like I should leave but I can’t.
I remember when I was young wondering why the Jews in Germany and good Germans didn’t simply leave the country when Hitler rose.
Now I’m old and i understand
My mother and her parents left bosnia in 1991 when the iron curtain came down and yugoslavia started falling. They saw the whole conflict and genocides coming as the Serbs and the Croatians were even under yugoslavia, treating the bosniaks worse.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Probably whenever they Saw people asking this same thing, if you have people asking that, its about time to pack It up
My great grandma fled the USSR during the pogroms and settled in Germany. The day Hitler was elected she and her husband starting packing and made a break for the US.
When they arrested and executed family members without due process.
When they banned us from owning guns for our “safety”.
Shockingly the gangs didn’t give a fuck and the government knowing we didn’t have any and they did made sure we knew who was boss.
Venezuela, I do not miss you
This morning when they started arresting judges.
Like I was already trying to leave but that headline sent chills throughout my body.
This was a really good question.
I’m an American and if the feces hits the oscillating device in this country, I have no idea where I’m going to go or even how to prepare for this.
Any advice is welcome.
I don’t know if you’ve heard of Prophet Song by Paul Lynch but it was the 2023 Booker Prize winning novel that explores this question (set in a fictitious version of Ireland that has been overtaken by a fascist regime).
Speaking for my grandmother she left Hungary when the hospital she worked at took a direct hit around the October Revolution. It was amazing what she and her family survived for love of country before this.
The police just started harassing people on the streets after one of the protests in Belarus. Some of them got killed, some injured, thousands were imprisoned (and tortured there). It is still happening. Also, I kinda was prepared for that psychologically for a long time before the violence erupted, because it was concealed for years. So when everything happened, I just took the first morning flight and left for another country. This is in two words, the story is a bit more complicated, obviously.
I used to know a cleaner whom was from Haïti.
Right time was in 1980 when the Tonton Macoute came for her husband, a political dissident.
That was the last time her and the kids saw him
And in the case of my first girlfriend, the daughter of a South Vietnamese general, they left the country in a small boat.when Saigon fell, During the crossing, the smugglers told her parents: either you give up all your gold, or we’ll rape the women and throw you into the sea.
They arrived in France with nothing.
The father, a doctor, was then able to work, but not for the same salary as the French. He died a few years later, plunging the whole family into poverty. Once in a while, her mother Ould tell about what she had left in Vietnam
I left the US in March. I learned from my grandparents, leave before- better to regret moving than not. I have an autistic child and my husband is European. Now, we are finding our way here. I’m keeping money in various accounts, enough to fly to Uruguay with inflated ticket prices and three months rent if things go south here too. I can laugh and tell myself I overreacted, my pride can handle that but I cannot survive if my family is hurt because of my inaction.
FWIW legal immigration today is vastly more difficult to do than before, unless you’re fleeing a first world country which the US still is, diplomatically at least. Otherwise, everyone is closing their borders more and more, even countries like Canada.
Not me but I remember asking my mom why she left the Philippines in the 70s. She explained about the Marcos regime and how he declared martial law. She said when that was announced, she knew she had to leave. She had been working towards moving, anyway, but she said that was her cue to hurry it up.
When Putin and Medvedev flipped in 2012 i think, me and my wife looked at each other and were like yep. Its time. Best decision ever.
You’ll never know when the right time is, but you’ll definitely know when it’s too late.
Edit: Since this did numbers I’ll just say this.
Listen. It’s not time to flee just yet.
We’ve gotta stand together and resist.
Arm yourselves with all of your rights, with knowledge, with courage, with friends and comrades, and with weapons as insurance today in hopes that they aren’t necessary tomorrow.
We have the people. We have the money. We control coastal trade and we have allies in Canada, Mexico, Japan, South Korea, and Europe. We are stronger than them, smarter than them and better than them.
We are the majority, and we cannot afford to be silent any longer. Hit the streets. Protest. Make them as afraid of the wrath of the people as they should be. Now is the time to speak as one. And if speaking softly doesn’t work we will reach for the big stick. Let the fascists and corporate oligarchs know that we will burn it all down before we surrender our lives and rights.
Take a page from MLK, a page from Rosa Parks, and another page from Malcom X.
Be ready to fight for your states. Let it be known that there is no United States without the Constitution.
I left the US in 2021. With a knowledge of history and pattern recognition skills, the signs were there. I hoped I was wrong, but deep down, I knew I wasn’t because i was raised in the far right evangelical world, and i know how they operate.
I’m still trying to convince my few liberal family members to seriously look for a way out, but it’s not easy.
I mean, y’all are assuming that the most vulnerable have the means to pull up stakes and head for the border. The best I can do for myself is back up north and a few hours’ drive to the Canadian border—and I’m exceedingly privileged in that respect.
I’m from Myanmar/Burma. Most of us young people left the country when they enacted the conscription law. Now, you can’t leave the country unless you’ve done military service, which in this case means until you die because there’s a civil war going on and they need more meat for the meat grinder.
We left Ukraine in 2011. I suppose, we did it as soon as we got immigration visas. Started the immigration process when it became clear that the dear leader (Yanukovych) was imminently returning to power. We got lucky – it took us just over a year to leave.
When my parents got an envelope with bullets, where each one had a name of a member of the family engraved on it and a letter that said “leave”
I think when you see professors, such as the two at Yale, whose expertise is fascism leave it’s probably time to go.
My grandpa spent 2 years in prison for organizing a worker’s strike against the socialist regime in Poland. Everyone in the family was looking to leave once he got released from prison.
Thankfully, some years later the 1989 revolution happened and we were able to return.
A better question might be if you could ask the ones who didn’t get out..
Two sets of my great-parents fled before World War I, which really shows some good instincts on their part. One was in the Austrian Army, as allies he could see war possibly ramping up by Germany. He knew he would be sent to fight on a side he felt was wrong. It is said he did not like the Kaiser. So he got fake papers, taught his 4 children how to speak Ukrainian and they escaped to Canada. All of this was a big risk! To this day we are not sure if we are the result of illegal immigration or if Grandma’s maiden name is even correct. She continued the game by being Ukrainian her whole life and celebrating Ukrainian Christmas. Given the anti German/Austrian sentiment after both wars, I suspect they just kept on pretending and still used the fake papers. Her father died within a year of settling here. A child was born on British waters during the trip here so she may have had dual citizenship.
The other great grandfather was German. They were scared that would be sent to war. They found the Kaiser unpalatable. He and his brother ran before WWI as well. He settled here in Canada, his brother in USA. They both got married fairly quickly. They met up a couple years later and discovered they were married to full sisters by some freak chance. The American side one generation later ran a very successful company. My grandfather met his cousin towards the end of his life, they called themselves brothers as they were the result of two brothers marrying two sisters. Double cousins. They looked like each other.
I can tell you this. Prepare your backup plan. Having Us passport it is easier. I grew up in the Soviet times through the collapse of the Union and wild 90s. Went to USa in 1999 as a student but decided i don’t want to stay there. Did not feel i can live in that country. Just didn’t like the way of living. So i went back to my homeland and many folks thought i’m crazy. But i love my country and really hoped back then things will change. But i decided i will have a backup and took the opportunity to get a legal status in Germany while i do not like it here much. But being in IT makes it easier a bit. 2020 showed us in Belarus we are fucked for another generation. Likely i had my german permit so i moved my family leaving lots of things behind and started kind of new life. While i still wait for the time i can go back, the fact i had a backup helped me to escape the risk of imprisonment and made my kids and wife live in a more secure environment. At least for now. Atm i’m thinking of a next backup plan. Many people are afraid of recession. I’m freaking scared of war. And it may come to Europe. To keep the story short. Just make sure you have a safe backup and make sure you can use it in time
When my parents decided it was time to leave Saigon (1979) and told us we’re going to go see Grandma and we’re going to leave tonight but you can’t tell anyone and you have to be real quiet
Some of my friends left one year ago. All active government employees and retired military officers.
I didn’t escape – The authoritarian dictatorship did not survive me. My uncle escaped earlier. He just went off-ship in Havana for a stroll and decided to not reboard the freighter he was a sailor on.
My grandad left Poland after he was thrown in a concentration camp and escaped (he was very clever and bilingual in German). Made it to the UK. He was 16 in 1939.
My grandparents and my infant dad fled Lebanon during the civil war after Muslim fanatics murdered my great uncle.
When I went to the market and found nothing at all but bones. When I was pointed at with a gun to my face to be robbed for the umpteenth time. When one of my neighbours got shot, hearing his relatives screaming. When kids died around me in protests. When we got tear gassed and shot at by the National Guards. When the Dictator was dancing Salsa in mandatory national transmission while he celebrated the death of protesters.
I left Venezuela in 2016 and it still fucking hurts.
My family and I got out late. But the older family members have talked about how they should’ve gotten out when the government started talking about restricting travel OUT of the country, because that was also around the same time journalists, academics, and even students started disappearing.
Possible Trigger Warning. This is a small but significant part of my late father’s life.
My late father was a young child during the Spanish Civil War. He was the youngest of a large family. During the war he lost 10 siblings, some to bombs (his 8 year old sister suffocated under the rubble, other family members died to illness, others to injuries).
During the fall of Barcelona, my uncle who had the audacity to fight against Franco, walked with approximately half a million to one million people to the French border. My uncle was placed in a concentration camp. My uncle was unable to escape from the concentration camp. I think the only reason he survived was he 18 years old and healthy. When he finally returned to his small town he told off the town priest and a couple of nuns. He denounced his religion. This was a big deal during that time in history. He returned to Barcelona and against all odds became a successful businessman. My aunts never spoke to him again.
When the fascists won, the reprisals began. My father’s two remaining sisters (teens) were raped multiple times.
When my father was in his late teens he realised that there wasn’t a future for him in Spain so he worked his way across the world on a Greek freighter. He remained Catholic and kept in touch with all of his remaining family (immediate and extended). In Canada, he eventually met my mum (Protestant) and they had a good marriage. Religion was never an issue. I admired my father as he wasn’t embittered nor bigoted. I often asked him how he could not be bitter. And he helped me with explaining his reasoning and philosophy.
As a child I lived in Spain for 4 years during two different time periods. Once during the end of the Franco era. One of my first languages was Valenciano (sp?) and I received corporal punishment for speaking Valenciano while attending school. This was normal throughout Spain. I learned Spanish quickly. I believe corporal punishment is child abuse and after two weeks in school I refused to attend any schools in Spain.
Growing up in Canada I never bothered to talk about Spain to friends or classmates. I didn’t believe in intergenerational trauma. I now do believe intergenerational trauma does exist and had a lot of therapy to deal with it. When I was young adult I vowed to never set foot in Spain again. Too much emotional pain and bloodshed for me. Obviously with therapy and maturity I changed my mind and I have been to Spain numerous times. I despise fascism and do not believe violence is the answer to anything. As did my parents and their parents.
ETA: Ironically my maternal grandfather was an RCAF pilot and numerous other of my Canadian side of the family also fought against the Nazis during World War 2.
It was during the Russian elections in 2000, when it seemed like the worst option was going to win. We had no idea what would happen (and none of us expected a war with fucking Ukraine) but we didn’t want to stick around to find out. Took another few years to actually get out, though.
When you are more afraid of the Police and law, than the thieves.
When people fled to the US in the 1920’s, the US was still growing and was welcoming to immigrants to help with growth, and there were jobs to be had.
The question now isn’t when to flee, but where? Who wants us? Where are the jobs? Is the grass really greener?
Is America asking for a friend?
When my best friend disappeared after criticizing the government online. No warning, no trial, no news. Just gone. That’s when I knew — if I stayed, it was only a matter of time before it was me.
2011-2012. Russia
When my VPN became more reliable than the actual news channels.
For my family, when my grandfather was picked up by men in uniform while he was Christmas shopping with my mom and aunt. He told them he just needed to talk them and sent them to continue shopping. ( 1971 ) They were in their teens when this happened. They never saw him again. We have no idea where his body is, as people who my family suspected who knew, took the secret to their grave. Growing up, we were told he was in the States. They shielded us from the truth so we won’t talk about it as kids.
I knew it was time when my university professor was arrested mid-lecture for simply mentioning democracy. It hit me hard — no matter how much I loved my country, it didn’t love us back.
My grandfather, the bravest man I have ever known, fled Germany shortly before the Nuremberg Laws were passed in late 1935. He had been a lawyer and had arranged everyone’s passports, hidden some gold away, and established a place for them to flee. The judiciary was already under control of the regime. He took his wife and five children and crossed France into Belgium, and by 1936 he was applying for asylum to multiple countries, including the US where he knew people in the Embassy. He was summarily denied.
As they began invading Belgium in May of 1940, the family fled along the coast on foot, separating children and adult so as not to all be traveling together, hoping their odds were better . My grandmother and my two aunts were caught a few days into the trip and sent to the gas chambers at Treblinka. The eldest son, Mikhael, was caught foraging food by the Gestapo in southern France and summarily executed on the spot. My father, who was nine, his younger brother Joseph, and my grandfather fled into northern Spain and were hidden by the remnants of the Zamoristas in Catalonia. Joseph developed pneumonia and died somewhere in northern Spain. My grandfather and father were smuggled into Portugal, onto a boat, and eventually made it to New Palestine. After the war, my grandfather had had enough of the Zionists, and he was finally granted a US immigration visa and came here in 1947. I was born on American soil in 1961. I grew up hearing the stories.
I guess this shit just follows my DNA
I was born in USSR, watched it collapsed when I was 7. Getting out for me was never a question “when it’s right” but “when I’m able”. By the time I was 21 I was legally orphaned, graduated cum laude from the best college in the country, but my English wasn’t good enough to qualify for international graduate school program. I spend another year in a local graduate program while paying to a lab colleague to teach me English after hours. Nobody believed I will go through with my intention to enroll into grad program in Ohio State University, Russia at the time was at peak economic growth, the government was pumping so much money into science and technology, that former USSR expatriates were coming BACK from US under the promises to be local science superstars. It never fooled me. It was very clear that those programs were purely for decorum and the processes were not meant to be fair or merit-based. Everybody was telling me what a fool I was to leave “clean” and beautiful Moscow metropolis for Midwest. I landed in Columbus, Ohio in 2006 with $300, never came back.
15 years later when the first bombs were dropped on Ukraine, panic settled in. My friends abandoned their businesses, properties and families to get out. My cousin, a male of military age, stayed until the conscription was announced. Due to geographical luck (our town is a few dozen miles from the border) he managed to get a last minute train ticket and crossed the border to Kazakhstan 3 years ago.
Did I see this catastrophe coming back when I left 2006? No, no one thought it could get this bad. Russia was the best it’s ever been in 2006 and it still sucked for those in lower economic class. It was always that people like me were not meant to have any future there. I took no joy in my decision, it was made out of desperation, and if I knew the struggles awaiting me I doubt I’d have the courage.
Imagine how it felt on November 6th 2024, after spending two decades getting the coveted US passport, to wake up in the 2nd iteration of Trump country. You think the catastrophic collapse can’t happen here? Erosion of civility happens slowly, but the system is collapsing in front of you and no one can do anything about it now.
When they arrested members of the opposition party for holding a primary.
When police stormed and shut down headquarters of the only newspaper still critical of the government.
When non violent protestors were given longer sentences than violent convicts for having posters in their backpacks.
When the heads of government were one by one replaced by toads with neither qualifications nor experience, purely based on their ass kissing rhetoric.
When they start passing legislation that you know will hurt people, and they don’t care.
When an extra panel of judges were suddenly appointed above the supreme court, with final decision on interpreting the law.
When caring about it makes you loose sleep and starts to affect your work quality.
It was never one thing, but you just see it getting worse and worse step by step, and you make a judgement call. The timing and reasons will be different between all your friends and family.