Often we hear women say what they won’t put up with but you genuinely can’t say until you find yourself in the situation. Even the strongest most independent women can fall for them. I mean it’s easy to fall for a charming handsome guy who tells you everything you want to hear. Abusive men are the most charming men in the world and know exactly what to say to hook a woman for life. I always told myself I wouldn’t get into an abusive relationship either but I did and it took me like 10 years to fully get over him. I thought I was broken because I literally couldn’t find any good men attractive. I would go on dates with good men after I left my abusive ex and I would feel nothing. It alters your brain chemistry to where you find normal relationships boring and you will self sabotage until you get therapy. I cried so many nights because I didn’t think I would ever be able to feel anything for a normal nice guy because I was so addicted to the highs and lows from the abusive guy. It takes a lot of therapy and NO contact. It’s literally like detoxing from a drug. I have seen so many people stay 5 10 15 even 25 years because it’s so damn hard to be with a regular guy after you’ve experienced highs and lows
Comments
Yes. It’s so hard to leave and so many people aren’t even aware how much they’re being abused.
I also think k people should talk more about the manipulation that comes before and the signs
I think nobody is in a place to make judgment.
Well and don’t forget the statistic that it takes an average of seven tries to leave an abusive relationship for good.
I was with my abusive ex husband for 15 years and I feel so dumb saying this but I couldn’t see that I was being abused. He was so sneaky about the physical abuse. But he focused his attention on all the other types.
It didn’t help that I was raised in an abusive household that was exactly the same so my mother set me up perfectly for my now ex husband.
It’s been almost 6 years and I still haven’t really dated because it’s so peaceful being single. Who knows what the future may bring
*We should.
Yes, and we have no idea what another person’s hard looks like there’s so many factors that are apart of abusive relationships that are never considered
well yeah
Yes, of course. Fear and love are our most powerful emotions as conscious beings. Fear can take over like a parasite, and love doesn’t have much sense. It’s impossible to see things clearly when both emotions are so prevalent, especially within a relationship!
Firstly, I’m very sorry you’ve been through an abusive situation, OP, but also very glad to hear that you’ve been able to escape the cycle now.
I confess I find this question a very difficult one to answer, insofar as I wonder what it means to give those women “grace” in this situation. I have a lot of sympathy for women who have been in (or are currently in) abusive relationships. I certainly don’t look down on them for that, and I don’t in a million years attribute any moral blame. However, I struggle to accept the more “radical” version of giving grace that typically supposes the abused person had zero control over their own circumstances, because this heavily conflicts with my belief that adults are fundamentally responsible (not necessarily morally responsible, but at least causally responsible) for the outcomes in their own lives, whatever the luck of their starting hand.
On a personal, more interactive level, I don’t usually vocalise my opinions on “giving grace” toward people in abusive relationships because the easy and obvious answer is that of course we should give victims grace, and sympathy, and whatever help they need. However, if OP you are soliciting our opinions on the meta approach here, then the above paragraph is realistically how I feel about it – that I feel very bad for these people and understand they are usually facing multiple barriers, but that I also don’t view them as totally helpless as I so often see the discourse imply.
I think it’s vital as a society to ensure affordable housing, and a livable income for those who are disabled or raising kids. And we need more judges who understand abuse, and how it’s cruel and unusual punishment to force an abuse victim to interact with their abuser via co-parenting, and how harmful to the kids. Until these structural barriers are systemically addressed, unfortunately it can be extremely difficult to leave.
The term trauma bond needs to be understood with its actual technical definition, meaning the intense neurocognitive impact of abuse with intermittent positive reinforcement on a survivor. Researchers have said it can be as powerful as a serious addiction, in terms of its impact on the brain. With more understanding, there should be more empathy for survivors and recognizing the strength and endurance it takes to break this.
However, to be very honest, on a personal level, after supporting multiple friends for many many years of them knowingly staying in abusive situations, and not even having the structural barriers I faced when leaving an abuser, they both turned out to become deeply disappointing and even harmful as friends. I do feel that connection and support, and especially empathy and freedom from victim blaming is essential for victims to get, but it’s also okay to take a step back if the friendship is harming you. If our culture had a higher baseline of empathy, support and lack of victim blaming, there would be less pressure on a single individual to support someone in these situations.
It’s not mine to give.
Personally, I see a lot of reasons people give as just excuses. When I was five, my mom left my dad while he was at work—she took two kids, a few clothes, and walked away with no money, no job, no family support, and nowhere to live. We couch-surfed for months until she found a job and got us a place of our own. She didn’t wait until it gets worse and just got out at a start. She’s always been my example. If she could do it under those circumstances, I find it hard to accept endless excuses from people who don’t even have kids. At some point, staying in an abusive relationship becomes a choice.
Having been in this situation, yes. Abusers are really good at finding victims. I’ve literally had people on here (in this sub!) tell me that my healing was my responsibility and to stop blaming my shitbag ex for abusing me because it was MY fault for falling for it. lmaooooooooo
Abusers all read from the same book, but they’re good at what they do. They find just the right person and, little by little, break them down farther from where they were, isolate them, and manipulate them into believing straight up lies. And after all of that, leaving takes time, planning, money (which some of us don’t have), connections (which some of us don’t have), etc. It’s not that simple.
When you are abused on a regular basis, and it starts small, it’s like a frog in a pot. You turn the heat on and the frog doesn’t realize it’s boiling, right? Well, when you had abuse in your life from childhood, and then later a partner, it starts slow. Generally I mean. Some start the day they are married but I digress. And it comes with mental abuse. They are made to feel worthless without the partner, and they really overdo the good times. Abused people imho aren’t in their right minds.
Because I was abused growing up, I knew how easy it would be to slip into that. Thus, anything physical, even a push, I would end it. I knew if I let it go it would feel comfortable to me.
I didn’t even realize I’d been abused until years after I left.
Hell yes
Yes we should!
It is easy to say what you would do from the outside looking in only seeing what is presented on the surface to the public eye. It is much harder being on the inside, where the real situation is a living and breathing reality of daily life. Especially if the “partner” presents a good public face, helpful and gregarious to everyone else that they do not live with.
Society has conditioned women for generations to base their worth on being in a relationship. Expecting them to carry the emotional load and take care of the partner and family without having her own needs met or even acknowledged. Then add in covert abuse.
Some make it out after years of trying, thinking “if it could only go back to how it was in the beginning, if I only try harder maybe they will be happy, what is wrong with me?” Some never make it out, at all. Many who are still in it get autoimmune disease from internalizing the anger, shame, hurt, sadness, that cannot be expressed for fear of more abuse. And end up terribly depressed and a shell of their former self.
Should we give more grace to women if it takes them a long time to get out of an abusive relationship? Absolutely 💯 % yes. The best we can do is continue to share information and resources, such as the free pdf book why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft. This book saved my life.
LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat
It would also be nice to educate everyone that unacceptable behavior is just that, no matter who it is from no matter how much you think you love them. If the question, “what would you tell your best friend if they were going through this?” Gives the answer to leave, then empowering people to make that decision for themselves in a safe way is a better way to go. There is no shame in standing and saying, “No more!”
Yes. If you’re actually getting dragged into the fighting, that’s another story because your safety should always be your concern. However, support lines are essential to abuse victims in being able to escape and move on. It’s not your job to save them, because often times they need to come to the conclusion to leave themselves, but being that outside perspective alone can make a world of difference. Statistically, it takes 7 times to leave an abusive marriage, and that’s almost always over many years.
I think we have a lack of empathy and overly individualistic society in the US, and it shows well with how women abuse victims are treated on a general basis. We outwardly shame the abusers because we know it’s wrong, but the amount of people actually willing to support an abuse victim, even being in their vicinity, isn’t very large. The whole “picking yourself up by the boot straps” mentality is so toxic and pervasive.
I agree. It’s not like it begins with punches. Abusers chip away at their victims self esteem, sanity and sense of self with verbal abuse and coercion long before they turn violent. They often isolate them as well. On average it takes a woman 5-7 attempts to leave.
It’s hard to know how to support someone in that situation. It’s so tempting to call the abuser out, or exclude them, but that can make things so much worse for their victims.
I’m really glad you managed to leave, it took a lot of courage and strength!
I will always give grace.
One thing I find insidious about our patriarchal society is that as marginalized as women are, we are often burdened with so much responsibility. When I experienced my abusive relationship I expected to feel a lot of feelings when it finally ended and I left but shame was not one of them. We live in a society where women are blamed for what we go through. Asking a woman why she did not leave earlier, why she did not realize she was being abused, why she did not realize her ex did not like her, why she couldn’t tell she wasn’t his dream girl because if he was he would not have treated her that way etc lots of blame to go around when a woman speaks up at all about this trauma. It’s so unfair but basically as a woman if you speak up you have to be prepared for shame. i refuse to contribute to that.
Yes absolutely. Reddit and the world in general is incredibly harsh on women who have trouble leaving… Fuck that, it’s honestly a form of victim-blaming. Abuse corrodes the qualities and support networks and independence you need to see it clear and leave.
I dont judge women for taking forever to leave unless there is a child, I am not a perfect human being and I cannot honestly say I dont judge, because I know I do. I strongly feel that when a child is involved, IF it is possible for you to leave yet you are not taking any steps to do so, you are also abusing them by staying, because a child has no power in that dynamic, you do. (Edited for clarification since i was not clear)
When it comes to you personally knowing someone going through something, like a friend, I have empathy for them, but I don’t look down on women who end friendships over it, in fact sometimes more should do so, she can get you killed.
We dont have to subject ourselves to bad friends/being abused ourselves because they refuse to leave. Never forget all the cases of abusive men killing their partners female friends that were trying to protect them.
My ex friends partner threatened me because she told him I told her to leave him when in actuality I said I wouldnt stay with someone who spoke to me in that way, and she sat there and watched as he got into my face. Never spoke to her again and I dont care what happened after, she made her choice when she was willing to throw me under the bus.
Sympathy yes, assist within reason, sure, until it impacts my peace or wellbeing. Act as if she has absolutely no control over her circumstances and allow her or him to also treat me badly? No.
Obviously, there is more nuance than a reddit comment can provide, but that is my honest opinion. We all judge people, Im not sure why we pretend we don’t. That being said, I would do what I could until my life is threatened, then you have to figure it out yourself. (added after edit)
Yes, definitely.
Took me 4 years to leave
Absolutely! Trauma bonds are crazy strong. It took me moving 1,000+ miles away from him to finally leave and he even came to visit me on my damned dime once the first few months of me living there. I’ve now been no contact with him for a decade until he randomly followed me on Facebook with an account I didn’t know to block. 🙄
Also a lot of times abusers wil give you the best sex you ever had which trauma bonds you even more to them and makes you even more addicted
If I didn’t have the support system that I did, my parents I would’ve been trapped with my ex-husband because he is a millionaire and we bought the house together. He has even screwed me through the divorce because he has money and he hired a high profile lawyer. Thank God we don’t have kids. We were only married for about 2 1/2 months, but the relationship was like a year and a half. I think that woman who do not have a good support system or well-off parents wouldn’t have been able to fight against him because I’m still paying lawyer fees and it’s been a year that he has used me as a co-signer on his house. He stole 30K worth of gifts he gave me because the lawyer justified it as a way to pay for the wedding expenses, which is absolutely bullshit. He made me cry on the wedding day in front of 200 people. People were laughing because his gold chain was bigger than my little necklace. I have a stable job and I’m getting my permanence this year. I have good friends. I’m really happy. I get zero equity in the house because I didn’t live there with him long enough but I have my freedom!
Yes. I’m not saying it’s right, but I understand why some women would stay.
My mom was in an abusive relationship for almost 15 years. The thing that finally got her to get out of it was me being unable to tell her that I loved her (I had gotten kicked out of the house for my 16th birthday and was juggled around several relatives houses).
I’m glad she got out and we’ve since patched our relationship but it left both of us with a lot of scars.
How is this even a question?
Yeah it sucks and is embarrassing and I hate it.
Yes and here is some advice on talking to women in abusive relationships ( I’m copying & pasting my own comment);
Here at 13 minutes in (I think between 13 minutes – 20 minutes) Lundy makes excellent points about what is going on inside an abused woman’s mind and how to treat her respectfully : https://youtu.be/zPrikYVg0CI
And here at minute 35: https://youtu.be/ywsTdzkiPF0
Lundys book, “Why does he do that?”
https://ia801407.us.archive.org/6/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Yes definitely
i mean a lot of us already do
but really, the sooner the better.
**YOU ONLY GET ONE LIFE**
Leaving is a lot more complex than people think. Financial barriers are the biggest reason women stay, next to loving them.
Truly condescending and judgemental post. “
Should we give more grace “? Have you been in such situation ? Maybe you should try and then see how much grace you would want from
Others . As if women want to be in abusive marriages , they choose ? No one chooses it! It unravels slowly and painfully!
What more women need to know is how to recognize the early warning signs of an abuser. It is a lot easier to get out of a relationship after a few dates than to leave once one is tied down with children or have become financially dependent on their abuser.
>Abusive men are the most charming men in the world and know exactly what to say to hook a woman for life
Sometimes but not usually. I really don’t like the trap women fall into thinking that abusers are all master manipulators. When 9 out of 10 times, it’s a man with no emotional regulation.
I sure hope so. I got financially stuck in my abusive marriage as a 20 yr old stay at home mom, and I’m still trying to find my way out after nearly 18 years. There have been just two clear, viable exit windows in this time, but I fucked them up as an extension of being in active addiction.
It’s taken me a very long time to accomplish the personal healing necessary to move forward. I don’t think I came close to seeing myself or my life clearly until I was about 35. I am now 38 and living the first year of my life where I actually believe I can leave this man. I finally have a real plan and I’m following it. I have tremendous hope for my future for the first time in my adult life.
I hope to find grace on the other side because I know I’m going to need it.
Ummm why the actual fuck wouldn’t we to begin with? It’s a notoriously hard thing to do for many reasons, the biggest being financial dependency, children, and fear of retaliation
Hmmmmm yes and no.
Yes. This should be a statement, not a question.
On a societal level yes. On a personal level no.
First, yes, we should give grace.
What people don’t tend to understand is the abuse can be far reaching. It’s not just physical, but this person is in your day to day business. They want control over everything. It took me 5 years to plan my “escape”. I was not allowed to finish college, I was not allowed to get a job, had to be a SAHM – I had to get a side gig that paid under the table that I could stash money away. I got grants to finish school online while the kids slept and the ex was at work. It’s not just a matter of – he hit you, you should leave. There’s a whole life (or several) that you need to plan for. And not just plan the escape, but plan the future for. This doesn’t even start to go into the divorce, restraining orders, or custody battles… then the flip side of PTSD and therapy for you, the victim.
So yes, grace needs to be granted, more resources need to be given – it’s extremely difficult getting out of this situation.
As a survivor myself, yes. I was with one for 8 years and two kids. It started slowly and by the time I figured it out, I was in too deep to get out without help, and he was a pro at playing games and knowing what to say to get me to come back. My family wouldn’t help me. It took him beating me up in front of our two kids (then 5&6) for me to break it off for good. It took me 8 failed tries before I made my break. And I was there as much as I could be for his next GF/victim. It took her less tries, but it was hell to watch. Now, once a year, we write the parole board and ask them to keep him for his entire sentence.
I believe that women who have been in abusive relationships and survived them, like myself, got out as soon as they could wrap their head around how to survive the aftermath.
Leaving, in my experience, is sometimes scarier than staying.
Yes. (Gonna say some stuff you already know firsthand OP, just saying it to flesh out my thoughts for anyone reading.)
The extreme highs and lows of relationships create trauma bonds which are essentially extreme addictions, and it can happen to anyone. Nobody is too smart, too good, too superior to fall prey to this. It’s like being the frog in the pot that slowly boils. You don’t realize it’s happening (because abusers are master manipulators) until you’re already in the trauma bond. There’s a reason it takes on average 7 times to leave and it’s not because those victims are stupid or like being abused. Between the trauma bond and the fact that the leaving period is one of the most dangerous times in the relationship for the victim, these people need grace. They’re already torturing themselves, they don’t need a pile-on.
That doesn’t mean enable people. But folks should say what they have to say taking that context into account, because it matters. Leaving an abuser isn’t a breakup, it’s breaking an extremely traumatic addiction. And it’s a journey victims have to take for themselves – unless leaving is what the victim is ready for, it won’t stick. Hence the addiction. It’s fucking unfair that the person who got abused has to be the person to do the healing work, but there’s nothing fair about abuse. I am saying this as a survivor who got out 12 years ago and spent a lot of time in excellent trauma therapy. I’m mostly healed, triggers de-programmed. But I’m forever changed and I had to work really hard and go into debt to get that help. And it took the better part of a decade. Yes, people being abused deserve grace. If somebody can’t give them that, it’s best to not say anything at all.
I will also say on the other side of things, it’s hard when the abused person is someone you love. It can be crushing to help them, to support them, only to have them walk back into the lion’s den. In those cases, it’s okay for the outside person to put up boundaries and prioritize their own mental health. But you can do that without being cruel. And that obviously doesn’t apply to random people dunking on a stranger for being abused on the internet. That’s unique to personal relationships, platonic, familial or otherwise.
I tend to advise people in abusive relationships to only ask for guidance or support from subs that are specifically for that purpose, honestly. Non-specialized subs are often very unkind and judgmental and it doesn’t serve the asker.
I’m so sorry about what you’ve been through. You deserved better.
I was able to leave when I’ve realized it was an abusive relationship because my family came across a post I’ve made. Otherwise, I would have stayed longer with him I’m pretty sure. Abusive relationships are very, very difficult to leave because they’re a mix of good and bad moments. Also the abuser is very manipulative, so he knows what to say or do in order to keep you under his control.
So yes, we need to be more patient with these women and not judge them.
I hate how much people judge women who are being mistreated and worn down by their partner. Like way to victim blame. It’s disgusting. The only person they should judge is the abuser. Period. People can be so nasty. Lacking empathy and any logic until one day they find themselves in the very situation they judged others for. Ironic.
I will give anyone as much grace as is needed to leave an abusive relationship, but I will say the victim should be considered a danger to children or animals if they turned a blind eye to one getting hurt or worse killed.
After being no-contact with my narc ex, he texted me yesterday trying to see if we can fix it. I literally changed his name to “remember boundaries” in my phone and I have notes in my phone and on paper to remind me what he put me through. On top of the fact that my family, friends and therapist knows everything and will look at me sideways if I was to ever entertain him again. It’s rough especially if you never experienced a healthy relationship. I’m not one to stay in a toxic relationship for long but I tend to attract the same type of people. It wasn’t until this last relationship and therapy that I’m noticing the patterns. I give people grace but only to a certain point because it starts to effect me hearing about it.
I think we should educate children/teens on what abuse can look like and what signs to look out for.
I also think there should be better social programs, that include counseling, to help people who are trying to escape abusive situations.
I also think that we should have better reform programs for children/teens who show signs of abusive behaviors before they become fully formed adults with deeply instilled behaviors that are unlikely to change.
I’ve been in this situation and the worst possible thing was having my family blame me for it and withdraw support because, in their view, I should have left.
All it means is that now, if I need support, I don’t tell them about it or ask for their help.
If they have children and them taking a long time to leave means their children are stuck being abused too then I do not give them a single ounce of grace, they chose to be in that relationship but their children didn’t, they have the power to leave and their children don’t. But if they don’t have children and it’s only them being impacted then I do give them grace.
It literally is a drug. Your brain manufacturers a cocktail of addicting chemicals. When your man screams at you, your brain squirts adrenaline to help you survive. But when he makes good to you by apologizing or giving you an expensive gift, and you give him another chance, your brain makes happy drugs that feel really good. Literally it can make a form of heroin.
This combination is devastating and, way too often, fatal. Every time you let him come back, the more entrenched that cycle becomes in your brain. First terror, then hope. Those chemicals force you to want him back because you feel like shit without them. It’s a vicious cycle. Emphasis on vicious.
So how do you get out of it? You need to never see him again. Cold turkey is optimal, but a close second is learning how to calm your mind. If you can regulate yourself, you can resist the lure of brain drugs. I’ve got dinner on so I have to stop here but please Google “Why does he do that?” By Lundy Bancroft. On his site you can download it for free. It’s life-changing.
Abusive partners do not only manipulate their spouses, they manipulate all of their spouses friends and family. Sometimes, the person trying to leave is gas-lit by an entire system of set up by the abuser so that they are pressured to stay. They also may not have the means to leave – perhaps no money, or maybe there are physical or cultural barriers to leaving.
When I left, I had to cut off an entire friendship group that had been charmed by my ex – there were no supports anywhere, everyone had been fed some sort of lie about me for years before I finally left. He had told them that I was a “shut in” and that I had mental health problems. Meanwhile, every time I became aware of an invitation, my ex would say that it was “cancelled” or that the friend who invited us was horrible in some sort of way, so we couldn’t go out – I was being isolated through lies, it was very strategic.
He even lied to my doctor. Do you remember what happened to Giselle Pelicot? Her husband’s strategies to abuse her are not uncommon. Abusers LIE. They can do it for years.
I literally left with nothing but $15 in my wallet and had to start everything again. It is very intimidating to realize that the person who were with for a long time, that you trusted, had been lying to you and has tried to hurt you – sometimes in your sleep, sometimes by getting into your bank account, sometimes by psychological torture, and if none of that works, they may escalate to physical harm.
You’re like a frog boiling in water – you’re in there so long that you don’t realize the water is gradually becoming hotter and hotter since it happens to slowly.
People do not realize that mental abuse is just as bad as physical harm, and it can take much longer to recover from it.
Absolutely. There’s a reason it’s called the cycle of abuse – it doesn’t start out that way and it’s not every day that something bad happens. Abusers are masters of psychological manipulation, lowering their victims self-esteem until they see no other future for them. It’s a tragedy.
We don’t have to be enablers, but we should at minimum have empathy for what survivors of domestic abuse suffer. It’s not a pretty life. Every time someone frees themselves from it, it’s a cause for celebration.
I don’t think we should ever judge someone else’s situation. From the outside looking in, everyone thought we had the perfect marriage – we were both successful, relatively fit and good looking, had a huge house and on the way to planning for kids. But in reality ex husband was abusive for 10 years.
I left because I could afford it. I could afford renting elsewhere, I could afford the lawyers and I could afford therapy. Honestly I would’ve thought twice if I didn’t have income / financially dependent so I’m honestly really lucky.
Offering grace and being a support system are different. I can abstain from judgement for such a woman but that doesn’t mean I want that sort of type in my life.
Yes of course! Abuse victims should always be supported and given grace.
It’s hard to imagine how hard it is unless you’ve either been through it yourself or witnessed someone you care about going through it.
By blaming the victim, abusers can get away with it.
It took me 6 years to leave and within those 6 years I attempted to leave 5 times. I was baby-trapped.
I had a masters degree and a great job as an engineer. I had come out of a divorce, was vulnerable and he took advantage of that. There were red flags all over the place but the real abuse didn’t start until after we had a child. I would move to get away from him and didn’t have a lot of family support so I’d get stuck trying to make it work with working full time, and would have to let him back in.
Every one told me to leave many times, and I didn’t disagree, but by then my self esteem was shot and I was just a shell of myself. It’s painful for me to even think about who I was at that point because it was not me.
I kicked him out during Covid while I was working and teaching our son on zoom at the same time without any help from him. I was essentially a single parent with a roommate who also abused me in various ways. Then I started to rebuild myself.
Recently I married my best friend and true soulmate at 41 years old. But man did I have to put in some serious work to get there.
Please give grace to women you know in these situations.
If you aware of the abuse and there is nothing that would make leaving impossible (so no financial issues etc) then yes, I would judge. Because at this point you stay there willingly. Yes, leaving is scary, but that’s the point of life – if you want to sustain it, you need to do the hard part.
I always find people very judgmental of women who don’t find enough strength to leave an abusive partner. But if someone didn’t experience abuse and manipulation of this magnitude, they will simply never understand. I wish I didn’t know that from experience…
Recently, I watched a crime show, where someone very accurately described that the abused woman’s brain is like scrambled eggs. Couldn’t have described it better… It’s so much confusion, fear, pointless hope, self-deceit, and more. Don’t wish that on anyone.