I would like to point out that only one side is actually carrying out genocide at the moment. Forget all the rhetoric and take a look at what’s happening.
Kind of the point. Israel will never accept the dismantling of their state, meaning Hamas will never go away, leaving Israel to have to take out Hamas militarily, which leads to Palestinians joining Hamas out of spite and hate because Israel has bombed their homeland and murdered their families. They want it to remain a never ending cycle so they can always be a thorn in Israel’s side.
What are you talking about? They’re negotiating a ceasefire deal, which does not mention the destruction of Israel at all, but rather the release of prisoners and hostages etc..?
I can’t imagine that’s the negotiating point that’s ever coming to the table, even if it’s a talking point or even a personal aim of some individuals.
With that being said, clearly all sides are extremely entrenched, there are generations of trauma, and neither feels safe living beside the other / occupied by the other, but of course it’s not a plausible solution to suggest that one side can cease to exist or relocate to a different area of the globe (unless of course you plan to build Trump Riviera, in which case obviously that would be totally fine and not genocide /s)
israel created Hamas it needs a bogeyman so it can continue its systemic ethnic cleansing of the population that remains there. the goal is a greater israel coveting parts of syria and most of lebanon. no organisation such as hamas created as a direct result of the continuing slaying of innocence will have a ‘we will tolerate oppressor’ in their charter. look at apartheid south africa and what the ANC demanded.
Hamas cares as little for Palestinian lives as Israel does. All that they care about is their end goal of destroying Israel. So, why include the end of Israel as a negotiating point? Specifically because it’s unreasonable. With an obviously unreasonable request, there’s no resolution, and the slaughter can continue at the hands of Israel, which continues to look worse and worse in the eyes of the rest of the world. And, should another party get involved at some unspecified time in the future, Israel may find itself without any allies to help defend itself.
Neither Israel nor Hamas are the good guys in this conflict. Hamas is almost psychopathic in the way it works toward its goals, and Israel has an irrational need to keep expanding its borders into Palestine, at the expense of an unwanted underclass.
They aren’t making an offer they think anyone will accept. They’re making an offer no one can accept.
It might align exactly with their ambition, which is the end of Israel, but they make it knowing no one will agree to their own end.
Therefore, they can proclaim they participated in the process, but the other side wouldn’t acquiesce. They can continue fighting toward their goal, and at least believe they don’t look like the bad guys.
If they made a more reasonable (sounding, anyway) offer of “Israelis leave Palestine and we stop,” and the Israelis agreed and complied, they would lose their abilities to keep fighting to end Israel with any way that looked good. Hamas (not necessarily all Palestinians) wants Israel gone, and not just from Gaza.
The IRA in Northern Ireland had the same negotiating point they wanted the British and everyone who was seen as British removed from the island and for a united Ireland to be formed. Through whatever means necessary. Their leaders eventually had to accept that this was not possible and were convinced of peace. What the IRA had on their side was the USA with the influence of over 80 million claimed Irish Americans. The British had no option but to negotiate once the US was on Irelands side. Hamas and Palestinians will never have this luxury and are doomed because of it. Israel will eradicate this entire nation eventually, and we will all watch and accept it. They will them turn to Lebanon and do the same.
The Arabs truly believe Israel not existing is a possibility and they will continue sacrificing and making martyrs out of their most vulnerable populations to wage a hopeless war. Being against the existence of Israel is part of the Arab/Muslim identity and these are people who don’t share a western style of morality and see nothing wrong with endlessly slaughtering their own people and in turn when they get a chance they will slaughter the Israeli’s like they did on Oct 7th.
They are not like us you can’t make sense of it because they don’t value life the same way we do.
I think you have that backwards, friend. 60% of Gaza has been turned to rubble. Most infrastructure has been bombed. Water, food, and medicine have been stopped for months. Starvation and disease are rampant as a result. 50,000 dead and twice that injured.
Are you telling me that I$RAEL is threatened by a defeated people ?
Am I to believe that I$RAEL isn’t interested in the New Gaza Riviera ?
Lol
A lot of negotiations are done simply to appease the international community with no actual desire for them to work. It has been a thing forever in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, both sides will “negotiate for peace” and will put in terms they know will never be accepted by the other. So they can turn around to their international backers and say oh look at them being unreasonable, rejecting a peace deal. It is simply bad faith negotiating.
hamas only exists as a reaction to israel being assholes to palestinians for decades. if israel obeys international law and accepted standards of human rights (amazing how many people think that’s unacceptable), hamas will go away.
It kind of hard when Israel top government officials said publicly their goal is to eradicate all Palestinians. This as bad as blaming all Jews for what the IDF does. It is wrong and needs to be condemned.
Israel also wants everyone to forget there is no Hamas government in the West Bank where they’ve been evicting Palestinians and targeting them with white phosphorus.
I have no problem calling Hamas terrorists and the did commit a horrendous terrorist act, but the IDF has killed and targeted journalists, killed hundreds air workers, and recently targeted and killed a director and her family after her film was accepted at Cannes.
They are asking for a five year ceasefire and release of hostages on both sides. Nobody is calling for a permanent settlement.
The fact Israel is starving Gaza to death is likely to weaken the Hamas negotiating position and to kill as many Gazans as possible. (A famous right wing Israeli producer of Netanyahu’s favorite television show just called for a literal “Holocaust”, his words not mine, against Gaza)
Thats the point, they dont. The west keeps trying to broker peace deals between the two, but neither side WANTS a peace deal. Them putting this as a negotiating point is essentially outside nations saying “theres a price for everything, just tell us what you want to end this conflict” and Hamas told them plain and simple, only the end of Israel will stop them, and theyre so committed that they would fight for that until they are all dead. Read HAMAS, not the state of Palestine or palestinean people, Important to distinguish this as some think they are interchangable/the same thing.
Comments
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I would like to point out that only one side is actually carrying out genocide at the moment. Forget all the rhetoric and take a look at what’s happening.
Permitting the destruction of Israel is also genocide, but who cares about logical consistency when it’s against the right people?
Israel is too powerful to be destroyed
Kind of the point. Israel will never accept the dismantling of their state, meaning Hamas will never go away, leaving Israel to have to take out Hamas militarily, which leads to Palestinians joining Hamas out of spite and hate because Israel has bombed their homeland and murdered their families. They want it to remain a never ending cycle so they can always be a thorn in Israel’s side.
What are you talking about? They’re negotiating a ceasefire deal, which does not mention the destruction of Israel at all, but rather the release of prisoners and hostages etc..?
They don’t really want to negotiate
I can’t imagine that’s the negotiating point that’s ever coming to the table, even if it’s a talking point or even a personal aim of some individuals.
With that being said, clearly all sides are extremely entrenched, there are generations of trauma, and neither feels safe living beside the other / occupied by the other, but of course it’s not a plausible solution to suggest that one side can cease to exist or relocate to a different area of the globe (unless of course you plan to build Trump Riviera, in which case obviously that would be totally fine and not genocide /s)
Israel has the same endpoint for Hamas. And both believe that the other is an entity bent on ethnic cleansing and destruction. They both have a point
Where did you read that this is an actual negotiating point?
Israel refuses to put on the table an actual end to bombing Gaza so
israel created Hamas it needs a bogeyman so it can continue its systemic ethnic cleansing of the population that remains there. the goal is a greater israel coveting parts of syria and most of lebanon. no organisation such as hamas created as a direct result of the continuing slaying of innocence will have a ‘we will tolerate oppressor’ in their charter. look at apartheid south africa and what the ANC demanded.
Hamas cares as little for Palestinian lives as Israel does. All that they care about is their end goal of destroying Israel. So, why include the end of Israel as a negotiating point? Specifically because it’s unreasonable. With an obviously unreasonable request, there’s no resolution, and the slaughter can continue at the hands of Israel, which continues to look worse and worse in the eyes of the rest of the world. And, should another party get involved at some unspecified time in the future, Israel may find itself without any allies to help defend itself.
Neither Israel nor Hamas are the good guys in this conflict. Hamas is almost psychopathic in the way it works toward its goals, and Israel has an irrational need to keep expanding its borders into Palestine, at the expense of an unwanted underclass.
They aren’t making an offer they think anyone will accept. They’re making an offer no one can accept.
It might align exactly with their ambition, which is the end of Israel, but they make it knowing no one will agree to their own end.
Therefore, they can proclaim they participated in the process, but the other side wouldn’t acquiesce. They can continue fighting toward their goal, and at least believe they don’t look like the bad guys.
If they made a more reasonable (sounding, anyway) offer of “Israelis leave Palestine and we stop,” and the Israelis agreed and complied, they would lose their abilities to keep fighting to end Israel with any way that looked good. Hamas (not necessarily all Palestinians) wants Israel gone, and not just from Gaza.
The IRA in Northern Ireland had the same negotiating point they wanted the British and everyone who was seen as British removed from the island and for a united Ireland to be formed. Through whatever means necessary. Their leaders eventually had to accept that this was not possible and were convinced of peace. What the IRA had on their side was the USA with the influence of over 80 million claimed Irish Americans. The British had no option but to negotiate once the US was on Irelands side. Hamas and Palestinians will never have this luxury and are doomed because of it. Israel will eradicate this entire nation eventually, and we will all watch and accept it. They will them turn to Lebanon and do the same.
The Arabs truly believe Israel not existing is a possibility and they will continue sacrificing and making martyrs out of their most vulnerable populations to wage a hopeless war. Being against the existence of Israel is part of the Arab/Muslim identity and these are people who don’t share a western style of morality and see nothing wrong with endlessly slaughtering their own people and in turn when they get a chance they will slaughter the Israeli’s like they did on Oct 7th.
They are not like us you can’t make sense of it because they don’t value life the same way we do.
I think you have that backwards, friend. 60% of Gaza has been turned to rubble. Most infrastructure has been bombed. Water, food, and medicine have been stopped for months. Starvation and disease are rampant as a result. 50,000 dead and twice that injured.
Are you telling me that I$RAEL is threatened by a defeated people ?
Am I to believe that I$RAEL isn’t interested in the New Gaza Riviera ?
Lol
OK, now, ignite the ADL response bots. Lol
A lot of negotiations are done simply to appease the international community with no actual desire for them to work. It has been a thing forever in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, both sides will “negotiate for peace” and will put in terms they know will never be accepted by the other. So they can turn around to their international backers and say oh look at them being unreasonable, rejecting a peace deal. It is simply bad faith negotiating.
hamas only exists as a reaction to israel being assholes to palestinians for decades. if israel obeys international law and accepted standards of human rights (amazing how many people think that’s unacceptable), hamas will go away.
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And Israel has the end of Palestine as theirs…..
Yes op.. you have just identified the entire fucking problem. Well done.
It kind of hard when Israel top government officials said publicly their goal is to eradicate all Palestinians. This as bad as blaming all Jews for what the IDF does. It is wrong and needs to be condemned.
Israel also wants everyone to forget there is no Hamas government in the West Bank where they’ve been evicting Palestinians and targeting them with white phosphorus.
I have no problem calling Hamas terrorists and the did commit a horrendous terrorist act, but the IDF has killed and targeted journalists, killed hundreds air workers, and recently targeted and killed a director and her family after her film was accepted at Cannes.
They are asking for a five year ceasefire and release of hostages on both sides. Nobody is calling for a permanent settlement.
The fact Israel is starving Gaza to death is likely to weaken the Hamas negotiating position and to kill as many Gazans as possible. (A famous right wing Israeli producer of Netanyahu’s favorite television show just called for a literal “Holocaust”, his words not mine, against Gaza)
You have the situation exactly backwards
Thats the point, they dont. The west keeps trying to broker peace deals between the two, but neither side WANTS a peace deal. Them putting this as a negotiating point is essentially outside nations saying “theres a price for everything, just tell us what you want to end this conflict” and Hamas told them plain and simple, only the end of Israel will stop them, and theyre so committed that they would fight for that until they are all dead. Read HAMAS, not the state of Palestine or palestinean people, Important to distinguish this as some think they are interchangable/the same thing.
Because the Palestinians are idiots and religious fanatics which is why no one in middle east wants them as refugees