if your loved one needs to attend a course on how not to abuse you, it’s time to leave. I believe all people are capable of change, but at some point you also have to protect yourself and loved ones.
I have known two couples where the guy attended a programme.
The first was free or super low fee group setting lead by a guy who had issues himself, but was now ok (at least that’s what he said himself).
The abusive guy went to few sessions, showed some symbolic progress and then started escalating abuse. The guys in the programme started acting like support, saying “yeah, you really tried, she doesn’t seem appreciative!”.
The second was a top class programme, 3 times a week with mandatory sessions (you miss one, you’re out), that cost smt like $30k for a year. With bi weekly session for the guy AND for the woman to talk to programme director.
2 years later they are still together. She says abuse dropped by some 90% (no, it never stops fully). And within 3 months of the programme he started admitting that he has a problem and it has nothing to do with her. She’s says the programme was a game changer, especially individual sessions where the director named exactly what the abuser was doing and how that was abuse.
I think programmes for abusive men where the woman gets real support are great – they are much better than couple’s therapy. And the programme director can call out the abuser when he twists events.
Programmes where they don’t hear the victim are completely pointless. So is any individual therapy.
I’m not surprised at all as I’ve recently attended a parental conflict course and the mediator blamed me or blamed my 10-year-old son but never expected my ex to take any accountability for his actions. In fact, she complained that I keep referring to the psychological evaluation Which went completely against her ” advice”
used to work for a non profit that would recommend/require such programs for some people. I had a couple clients that were very open about how bullshit the programs are, saying things like “yeah you just have to show up and look like you’re paying attention” or “as long as the instructors like you you’re fine.” personal favorite: had to tell him he now had to do the class, he said “ohh at x hospital? I’ve done that class like 3 times, the instructors are super cool. yeah I’m fine with that” aka he was buddy buddy with the instructors and easily “passed” every time. was a classic narcissist who was superficially charming to majority of people and who hated anything too hard or anyone who challenged his ideas. so just imagine how bad those instructors were
If they’re referred to a program for violence, that clearly indicates that they’ve been caught and there’s enough evidence to compel them. Just go through the court for assault at that point. The institutional diversion programs for abusers remind me of colleges “investigating” their students’ crimes so a court case doesn’t bring them shame, while the abuser walks free.
even “normal” supportive groups often turn into men either blaming women or just using it to justify terrible behaviour—even when they are mixed, and especially when they are focused on men—so i’m not surprised that it’s not different with people who already have history of abusive behaviour
As someone who trained in how to counsel individuals who have perpetrated domestic violence, I thought it was a load of crap. I was married to an abuser (pathological Narcissist) for almost 14 years and fought like hell to get 50/50 parenting time after he hurled a bunch of very false allegations my way. It was remarkable to me that my state was offering all these services and support to perpetrators who merely had to show up and pretend to give a shit about changing their maladaptive behaviors. Frankly, it infuriated me. Where was my free counseling and support when he was dragging me through the courts, trying to destroy me once again after yearsssssss of abuse? And I knew that my very clever Narcissist ex would have weaponized this therapy as he had done with his own personal therapist and marriage counselors. Some people just use therapy to feather their abuse and these programs are def ripe for this kind of abuse. Look everyone…I passed my program (but still harass my ex-wife every chance I get.) I guess if these programs reach even one person with abusive behaviors, it’s a net positive but I’m still very skeptical.
Court-mandated therapy programs naturally run into the same problem – progress is only possible if the patient wants to change. These abusers don’t have any personal reason to change, because they don’t suffer from the abuse. Their partners do.
They’ll only possibly listen if they fear their partners will leave them.
My gf of 5 years broke up with me because in the last year of our relationship I became emotionally abusive towards her. When she left I was devastated, full of shame and regret and remorse– but I was glad she made the best decision for herself.
The thing that has helped me understand and address my behavioral/psychological issues is going to support groups for adult survivors of child abuse. I always had feelings of anger and aggression ever since I was a small child, because I grew up in a violent and abusive household surrounded by alcoholics. I never learned emotional regulation or healthy coping mechanisms– I’m just learning those things now, unfortunately. I realize now that my life and my relationships have been guided by fear and insecurity, and when problems arose I defaulted to the abusive & domineering behavior that I learned growing up.
What helped me curtail my abusive tendencies was dealing with the years and years of my own psychological and emotional pain that I had suppressed my whole life. I understand myself well enough now to know that my perception is often wrong. I understand that my hyper-vigilance and reactivity, which used to protect me in my home growing up, no longer serve me and in fact hinder me from being in a secure and loving relationship.
My advice to anyone who has abused their partner or child is to figure out where the anger and aggression come from, and begin to heal those emotional wounds. This might require being alone for some time or giving loved ones space until significant healing and change occurs. Making amends is necessary for a healthy relationship too, although it may not always be possible and walking away from a relationship may be the best course of action.
Comments
https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/
Most of them are smart enough to not do things at work that will incur consequences.
It’s a choice to allow their actions at home.
They do it because they can.
And if they have – and don’t take significant steps to stop it – they’re doing it because they want to.
if your loved one needs to attend a course on how not to abuse you, it’s time to leave. I believe all people are capable of change, but at some point you also have to protect yourself and loved ones.
I have known two couples where the guy attended a programme.
The abusive guy went to few sessions, showed some symbolic progress and then started escalating abuse. The guys in the programme started acting like support, saying “yeah, you really tried, she doesn’t seem appreciative!”.
2 years later they are still together. She says abuse dropped by some 90% (no, it never stops fully). And within 3 months of the programme he started admitting that he has a problem and it has nothing to do with her. She’s says the programme was a game changer, especially individual sessions where the director named exactly what the abuser was doing and how that was abuse.
I think programmes for abusive men where the woman gets real support are great – they are much better than couple’s therapy. And the programme director can call out the abuser when he twists events.
Programmes where they don’t hear the victim are completely pointless. So is any individual therapy.
The book “Why does he do that?” also talks about these types of groups for men. 100% worth the read.
I’m not surprised at all as I’ve recently attended a parental conflict course and the mediator blamed me or blamed my 10-year-old son but never expected my ex to take any accountability for his actions. In fact, she complained that I keep referring to the psychological evaluation Which went completely against her ” advice”
Lundy Bancroft talks about this. His message is to leave these men. They do it because they can.
used to work for a non profit that would recommend/require such programs for some people. I had a couple clients that were very open about how bullshit the programs are, saying things like “yeah you just have to show up and look like you’re paying attention” or “as long as the instructors like you you’re fine.” personal favorite: had to tell him he now had to do the class, he said “ohh at x hospital? I’ve done that class like 3 times, the instructors are super cool. yeah I’m fine with that” aka he was buddy buddy with the instructors and easily “passed” every time. was a classic narcissist who was superficially charming to majority of people and who hated anything too hard or anyone who challenged his ideas. so just imagine how bad those instructors were
If they’re referred to a program for violence, that clearly indicates that they’ve been caught and there’s enough evidence to compel them. Just go through the court for assault at that point. The institutional diversion programs for abusers remind me of colleges “investigating” their students’ crimes so a court case doesn’t bring them shame, while the abuser walks free.
even “normal” supportive groups often turn into men either blaming women or just using it to justify terrible behaviour—even when they are mixed, and especially when they are focused on men—so i’m not surprised that it’s not different with people who already have history of abusive behaviour
As someone who trained in how to counsel individuals who have perpetrated domestic violence, I thought it was a load of crap. I was married to an abuser (pathological Narcissist) for almost 14 years and fought like hell to get 50/50 parenting time after he hurled a bunch of very false allegations my way. It was remarkable to me that my state was offering all these services and support to perpetrators who merely had to show up and pretend to give a shit about changing their maladaptive behaviors. Frankly, it infuriated me. Where was my free counseling and support when he was dragging me through the courts, trying to destroy me once again after yearsssssss of abuse? And I knew that my very clever Narcissist ex would have weaponized this therapy as he had done with his own personal therapist and marriage counselors. Some people just use therapy to feather their abuse and these programs are def ripe for this kind of abuse. Look everyone…I passed my program (but still harass my ex-wife every chance I get.) I guess if these programs reach even one person with abusive behaviors, it’s a net positive but I’m still very skeptical.
Court-mandated therapy programs naturally run into the same problem – progress is only possible if the patient wants to change. These abusers don’t have any personal reason to change, because they don’t suffer from the abuse. Their partners do.
They’ll only possibly listen if they fear their partners will leave them.
My gf of 5 years broke up with me because in the last year of our relationship I became emotionally abusive towards her. When she left I was devastated, full of shame and regret and remorse– but I was glad she made the best decision for herself.
The thing that has helped me understand and address my behavioral/psychological issues is going to support groups for adult survivors of child abuse. I always had feelings of anger and aggression ever since I was a small child, because I grew up in a violent and abusive household surrounded by alcoholics. I never learned emotional regulation or healthy coping mechanisms– I’m just learning those things now, unfortunately. I realize now that my life and my relationships have been guided by fear and insecurity, and when problems arose I defaulted to the abusive & domineering behavior that I learned growing up.
What helped me curtail my abusive tendencies was dealing with the years and years of my own psychological and emotional pain that I had suppressed my whole life. I understand myself well enough now to know that my perception is often wrong. I understand that my hyper-vigilance and reactivity, which used to protect me in my home growing up, no longer serve me and in fact hinder me from being in a secure and loving relationship.
My advice to anyone who has abused their partner or child is to figure out where the anger and aggression come from, and begin to heal those emotional wounds. This might require being alone for some time or giving loved ones space until significant healing and change occurs. Making amends is necessary for a healthy relationship too, although it may not always be possible and walking away from a relationship may be the best course of action.