So I’ve had 2 situations this week where 2 diff guys have pulled the same move on me, some kind of weird one handed shoulder massage on one shoulder. Both times I’ve completely frozen up and not said anything even though I was deeply uncomfortable.
The first time, I was in a group situation, we all got into a car after a night out and the person put their arm around me and started caressing/massaging my shoulder. The second time it was my friends dad (totally separate friend group from the first), who was very drunk and sat next to me on the couch and just started randomly doing it while we were sat around talking/listening to music. I brushed off the first time, but now it’s happened twice in one week I want to know how I can stop it happening again and what I should say in a situation like this.
Both times: – Ive not felt unsafe, just very uncomfortable, otherwise I would’ve said something/left. – They were both people I’d met a couple of times before, but didn’t know very well. If I’d known them less (ie stranger) I’d have felt comfortable confronting them, if I’d known them more I’d have felt comfortable telling them to F off, but they both fell into this weird inbetween where I didn’t know how to approach it. I’m a very polite person. – Both times I was having a good time with the group, until this happened, and being the very non-confrontational people pleaser I am, I didn’t want to “sour” that. – Both times they commenced touching me, then asked me a few minutes into it if it was I was cool with it, which doesn’t feel like asking for consent to me. By this point I was already frozen in discomfort and even when given an “out” I minimised my discomfort and just said “it’s cool”.
But it wasn’t. And I feel really annoyed and quite concerned that I am not able to speak up in these situations. I was also sort of “trapped” in both of these situations – in a car the first time and on a couch with nowhere else to really go the second time. And both times no one else really saw/knew what was happening. I don’t believe either man was genuinely predatory or trying to be, just didn’t know how to read cues and I wasn’t exactly giving off strong “no” cues anyway.
I know the “right” answer is to just say “please stop touching me, you’re making me uncomfortable” and that’s all I wanted to say. But I know myself, and I know I am not comfortable saying that and probably won’t if this situation occurs again. I am too polite for my own good, unless I feel like I’m in genuine danger. What can I say in these kinds of weird situations where it’s people I know a bit but not super well, without souring the vibe of the group? Like I still wanted to stay and have fun and socialise both of these times, but just wanted that immediate thing with that person to stop. I do have a bf, so maybe I could bring that up? Any advice would be really appreciated. I feel disappointed this happened.
Comments
You aren’t the issue, you aren’t doing anything wrong.
You do however need to say something if it bothers you. You can’t wait for people to get the hint or feel the vibe. If you don’t tell them you don’t like something they won’t know to correct your behaviour. Something as simple as please don’t touch me and moving away works.
Here’s your line: “Lose the hand.” Say it sharply, immediately, in a low voice, with a deadly glare. They never expect responses like that.
To quote Gavin debecker, men who can’t let go choose women who can’t say no. On the one hand, you’re describing having a freeze response, while you say that you didn’t feel unsafe on the other hand. If you had a freeze response, then you did feel unsafe but you tried to talk yourself out of it. If it ever happens again, tell yourself that your fight or flight response is a sign that you feel unsafe inside of your head, and you’re going to use your voice to tell them to stop and your legs to get up and walk away. Also, in the meantime, you need to tell other people that are familiar with that person what happened so that they don’t leave you alone with them and they can put their bodies between you and them, and you need to tell that friend that he is not permitted to touch you like that in the future.
“Oh thanks, but I don’t need a massage right now”
It’s the creeps not you
Shitty people love an ambiguous action or comment that violates boundaries because it lets them test you without blatantly outing themselves.
They knew what they were doing. And they knew you were uncomfortable, which is why they asked. And they also knew you’d likely deny your discomfort verbally, which is a perfect cover for them to pretend they didn’t know their behaviour was unwanted. Then they usually begin to escalate.
You can try to practice phrases so that you’re prepared for another violation. Find one that works for you. But even just NO, or just a sharp slap on their hand or arm is sufficient. Then stand as far away as you can if you have to remain in the same room.
As for these two, as someone said in another comment, I would alert any mutual friends. That creepy dad is particularly bad, preying on his daughter’s friends…
You deserve to have your bodily autonomy respected!
>What can I say in these kinds of weird situations where it’s people I know a bit but not super well, without souring the vibe of the group?
You’re not going to get the answer you want from us. You already know what we’re going to say, and you’ve literally told us you’re not going to take our advice:
>I know the “right” answer is to just say “please stop touching me, you’re making me uncomfortable” […] But I know myself, and I know I am not comfortable saying that and probably won’t if this situation occurs again
Whenever you’re willing and able to take your own answer, it’s right there.
If verbalizing it feels too confrontational to you, you can also simply pick up their hand and move it, or shake it off, or walk away. Doing literally anything is better than nothing at all.
Maybe you can ask a trusted male friend to role play to practice saying the words several times. It will feel more familiar if you’ve actually practiced uttering the words in advance in a safe space
Read Gavin de Becker’s book The Gift of fear. It’s old but relevant. It addresses the being too polite to say no. We are trained to be like that to our detriment.
If you can do it, a therapist can help you come up with ways to deal with handsy people.
Some people may get pissy but that’s their problem. Other people telling you you misinterpreted or that’s just how he is also need to be corrected.
I wish I had specific things to offer. I am working on these things myself.
If you don’t feel comfortable saying anything, you could try shifting your body / repositioning yourself / shrugging their hand off, depending on situation.
Like the couch thing, you could get up to grab a drink / go to the toilet / stretch your legs or something.
The car situation is trickier because you can’t just leave your seat. So maybe move your body to twist around and look at something out the window like “hey what’s that?” or something.
But if you do want to make sure they know you don’t like it, without having to say anything, then shrugging their hand off or picking their hand up by the wrist and moving it back to their own area would be a more direct non-verbal communication.
I think the main way people handle the dilemma you’re describing is through humor. It’s a tactic with pros and cons, for sure. But i wonder if a couple of lines in your back pocket when you don’t feel up for a more direct approach could help.
I use “quirky” behaviour to get out of these situations. In a car, I’d lean forward and open the window and do the hand catching wind currents thing. Or lean forward and talk to the driver about a random topic or memory to engage them or all the passengers. On the couch, I tend to always be aware of my personal space, and I would have sat cross legged towards them (side ways on the couch) or just shifted my body to be more like “we are hanging out” and not a couple sitting side by side like we are watching a movie together.
You are doing nothing wrong btw. It sucks that we have to think about these things.
How about “Do you know why women love Keanu Reeves so much? pause for quizzical look Because he doesn’t put his hands on them”
I have also found that giving a man a strong disapproving look is generally enough for them to get the message. You need strong eye contact, a bitch face, and one eyebrow up. If needed, you could follow that up with “Do you squeeze all the avocados at the supermarket?”
Make no mistake, this squeezing you on the shoulder thing is a dominance move. One way or the other, you need to make it clear that you won’t be dominated, even if you’re just shrinking your shoulder away.
Recovering/unlearning people-pleaser here. Mantras tend to help me internally psych myself up to stand up to people. Tell yourself “I’m not going to make myself small.” Then out loud to the offender, “I need my space” as you simultaneously shrug their hand off your shoulder. If they disregard, then that likely is going to piss you off enough to push back even stronger. They are the problem, but it’s up to us to adapt ourselves to an advantage-taking world.
Do this to someone who’s been in prison and they turn their head dramatically and stare at the hand put on them, without flinching. Do that. It makes people realize they offended you and you don’t have to say a word.
Honestly? Practice saying it aloud when you’re alone. And while a firm response is technically better in most cases, it’s okay to give yourself an “out.” Men do it all the time (“I was just joking” etc).
“Remove your hand, please.” (properly using a stern tone, the ‘please’ is a fake politeness, i.e. “unless you want me to make a scene”)
Fake-confused, conversational tone: “hey, Jim, why do you have your hand on my shoulder?”
Fake-joking: “Oops! I’m not your wife!” and “haha, whoa, we’re definitely not THAT close.”
(If you’re also someone who just gives in to getting hugged by near strangers, build up confidence by practicing leaning away and presenting your hand for a handshake. “Oh c’mon, insert some potential stupid reasoning, bring it in!” can be met with a chipper “No thanks!” and a firmer “Nope! 😃” Just guessing there are likely other ways in your life that you’re freezing up with not wanting to be touched but if you’re not used to stopping it, then the shoulder touches might feel extra difficult to deal with.)
I’ve always been one to say absolutely nothing, just like they did, and physically remove their hand in a bigger than life gesture, while still chatting away. Let them know they are being stopped from their behavior without giving them room to interject any sort of complaint.
You did nothing wrong.
Both men touched you without consent and it was inappropriate. Freezing is a common response when a woman doesn’t know what to do.
If you feel brave enough next time, I encourage you to be RUDE. Jump up. Get away. In the car, if you are uncomfortable, you demand he pulls over now and you’ll take a cab. Speak up and don’t care if he hurts his poor little feelings. Sometimes a firm “nobody touches me without asking first” and pulling away gets the message through. Doesn’t matter if other people saw what he was doing or not. All that matters is you take an action to remove something intolerable.
Combo of me being physically bullied, having to take extra safety precautions due to health problems, and a family member in the FBI… but my parents worked with me as a kid to practice saying no. That would be my advice to you. Get a friend and get to role playing!
Another thing they emphasized is that at the end of the day protecting myself is never wrong. Other people might think I’m being rude or “too much”, but THEY are the ones being rude by making me feel unsafe and not taking my needs into account. It’s not rude to demand safety.
In terms of wording, I would recommend practicing something kind of generic that could go with a lot of situations, that way you can kind of get it stuck in your head. “Don’t touch me” is a good one to have in your back pocket. I also LOVE a pointed “excuse me”.
You can also practice walking away and removing an arm. The point of practicing is just to get it to be more of a reflex so you don’t have to think too hard about what to do in a stressful situation.
Finally, in the car situation, yes like someone else said if my first attempts didn’t work, I would ask the driver to drop me off at the next safe location. My parents had me practice this too. If they asked why I’d either say I’m sick or that I’d discuss when I got there but really needed to get out of the car (bc I would worry about escalating the problem person while you’re still in an enclosed space with them).