You all told me and she said it would be 1-2 years out. And it’s happening now.
My MIL voiced she wanted to move within 30 mins of our home. Now that we’re a few months out from the birth of our baby girl, she has decided that the 30 minutes is too far. She now is looking for a house 15 minutes or closer.
She specifically asked us if our city was too close. And we said yes, that’s too close. And she did not like that answer.
Her response to this was “we don’t have to hang out.”
My husband is convinced his mom is mad and will be for a few days. To which I don’t really care about because boundaries need to be set. I will not be spending postpartum and mat leave with his mother while he’s working.
Recently at dinner, I told my husband the reason this is such a problem now is because his mom is used to spending all her time with him when they visit, whether he goes to his home town or she visits us.
He told her not to move here based off of our lives or our works. But that went in one ear and out the other. I can tell she wants to move to gain more control of his life and by proxy our life and our baby’s.
So now that she’s moving here. She’s looking for a house. She expects 24/7 time with him/us. He doesn’t want that and neither do I. It’s like she’s never seen us as adults in our day to day lives.
Anyway, he’s hesitant to have large conversations with her because they never go well. On many different occasions he’s tried to set boundaries whether that be to not exclude me, voice concerns, but they always end badly. Imagine a dramatic teenage throwing a temper tantrum. She gets defensive, masks her behavior as “help” or “concern,” gives him the silent treatment, then yells at him, and inevitably says I’m controlling him and calls me names behind my back.
I have empathy for my husband. But at the same time, boundaries need to be set or our lives with be overrun.
I spoke with my therapist about this. But she said I should specifically ask him why setting these boundaries is hard. And see how I can support him. In a nutshell he said that he wishes things were different but ultimately knows they will never change with his mom. He doesn’t know why everything he or we do is somehow a personal slight in her mind…
At least to me, it’s classic narcissistic blinders. Anything that we want that she doesn’t somehow must be a her problem.
She can’t really understand why we don’t want her over 24/7. You can’t really tell someone that they are all encompassing / engulfing and take up 99.9% of your time when you’re with them. My husband and I “escape” through naps, and walks around our neighborhood to get away.
To say we have more than 10 mins a day to ourselves when she visits is generous.
Some people are probably thinking ask her to stay in a hotel…oh we have and she still doesn’t leave until 9pm, or she just doesn’t go to the hotel. So kick her out. As you can tell me are pretty spineless.
All that to say is you warned us, and I’m feeling hopeless now. I understand the need to set boundaries. But again I don’t know how exactly. My therapist said my husband has to do it. I agree, but again idk how support him in doing that…
We’ve talked about our boundaries and we’re on the same page. It’s the “communicating” them. He doesn’t feel like he can because she doesn’t listen or she yells at him. Basically she’s going to do what she’s going to do. And he doesn’t know how to set or enforce boundaries.
She’s also so manipulative in getting what she wants whether that’s going around him and trying to triangulate us, or mask getting what she wants through gift giving.
I think I’m just ranting now. But saying “set boundaries” is not helpful. Telling him to have a sit down convo with her is not helpful. Everything goes in one ear and out the other.
Comments
Quick Rule Reminders:
OP’s needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don’t be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion.
^(Full Rules) ^(|) ^(Acronym Index) ^(|) ^(Flair Guide)^(|) ^(Report PM Trolls)
Resources: ^(In Crisis?) ^(|) ^(Tips for Protecting Yourself) ^(|) ^(Our Book List) ^(|) ^(Our Wiki)
Other posts from /u/theivythatispoison:
Setting Boundaries with DH and MIL around Baby, 3 months ago
Yikes! MIL being scammed. , 7 months ago
If your MIL previously lived in another state and now lives in yours, how did your life change? , 8 months ago
MIL Rehearsal Dinner, 1 year ago
Overbearing MIL planning to move to our state within 30 mins of our home., 1 year ago
Excluding MIL, 2 years ago
I don’t know what to do…, 3 years ago
My Sweet Naïve SO, 3 years ago
He’s frustrated and so am I, 3 years ago
Precursor to “He’s confused and so am I.”, 3 years ago
^(This user has more than 10 posts in their history. To see the rest of their posts,) ^(click here)
^(To be notified as soon as theivythatispoison posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe theivythatispoison JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) ^(click here.)
^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please) ^(contact the moderators of this subreddit) ^(if you have any questions or concerns.)
I don’t know what you expect if you guys aren’t willing to set any boundaries. There’s literally no other choice or advice someone can give you. If your husband won’t do it, take his phone and text her that you aren’t going to spend time with her when he isn’t home. Make a fair limit on how often you’ll see her. My mil is overbearing too, so my husband and I see her once every 3 weeks to a month for an hour or two. It’s still a lot for me, but it’s our compromise. We don’t spend Christmas Eve or Christmas Day with her. It’s for nuclear family. Make up your own set of boundaries and tell her that’ll be how it is if she moves here. If she comes without asking? Don’t answer the door. It’s that simple. You’re adults, she can’t control you
People treat you the way you let them treat you (as an adult), time to start letting YOUR OWN Mama Bear out and stop taking her and your hubby’s shit.
“boundaries need to be set or our lives with be overrun”
You can say that again.
I think your HUSBAND needs to be blunt.
“Listen Mom, you can certainly move wherever you want, we cannot stop you, BUT, and I hope you’re listening, we will be busy learning our roles as new parents and bonding with our baby so, right now, our expectation is that we may only invite you over once a month to see the baby at the most.”
Rinse and repeat as often as possible.
Key word here is INVITE.
I also recommend a door camera and not answering if she shows up uninvited. Which she most likely will.
if he has a talk with her about boundaries maybe it will result in her throwing a tantrum and not moving !!!!
You go no contact. If he can’t do it in increments you go brick wall until he can.
She can’t come to your home. She can’t call. No access.
That’s the choice.
He has to cut his own umbilical cord before he can cut your baby’s.
Message her and tell that that she is free to move wherever she likes but her proximity will not change the type or frequency of her visits to your family and that she had best prepare for the effects of loneliness and isolation from her friends and family as you and your child will not be fulfilling her social calendars so she is going to be spending a lot of time alone. You have to stick to it though otherwise it’s just an empty threat.
Tell your husband unless he puts a stop to this now that you will be going to stay with friends or family as the birth approaches and you do not wish to be around her at all.
Husband may need therapy as well, but bottom line is his responsibility is to you and the baby now. It’s great that he recognizes the problem, but he has to act on it. If he needs support with this, he needs to take the initiative to get that.
You’re past the “Am I overreacting?” phase and firmly in “My MIL is a manipulative nightmare” territory. Your husband needs to steel himself for toxic family dynamics. You’re on the same page, but it’s time for some tough love: your husband has to set those boundaries, even if it means conflict. Support him by being his rock, but also acknowledge that his mom might never change. You can’t fix her, but you can protect your family.
If you don’t talk it out now or do something, what are you going to do!? She’ll do whatever she wants.
Tell her if she moves to your city that you guys are moving to the opposite side of the country.
She will only go inside of your home if your guys allow it, you don’t need to open the door, let her storm, let her be mad.Husband needs therapy asap, he’s too afraid of her and gets manipulated by her. She keeps breaking boundaries bc she knows everything will be fine, once you guys start kicking her out, not opening the door she will learn
You need to have a conversation with her about social engagement. Unless she lived there before and has old friends, she is going to be lonely and you, husband, and baby isn’t going to fill that void for her. She isn’t going to be hanging out daily. You and hubby have a life and a social calendar that won’t be cancelled to make her feel better about being in a town with no friendships. She needs to have a plan for how she is going to form her social network.
And she isn’t going to be a second mom or a grandmother who babysits daily. You are the mom and you are going to take all the perks that go with it. It won’t be shared. She raised her child/children, she has to realize this is now your time.
Don’t know you. Don’t know your story yet. All I had to do was read the title to know there was a baby involved.
Boundaries are your limits and how you respond to those limits being crossed.
To DH: Your mom is not welcome at our home. She over-stays her welcome and engages in emotional abuse when you set a boundary. So LO abd I will only see her in public. We can visit her at her house with set time to leave!
If she comes over uninvited and unannounced: you don’t open the door. If DH caves to her pressure, you take baby and leave! DH will need to handle his mom alone and leave you out of it. He isn’t helpless, but he needs to want to get professional help and actually prioritize the family he is creating.
MIL is weaponizing help. Do not take it if you can help it. He neutral as possible. Stick to facts and the impact of MIL behaviors when talking to DH about his mom. Let him know how his lack of boundaries is impacting you and damaging your marriage. Do not speculate or give any weight to intention because that’s irrelevant.
Get a book on boundaries for your husband. Look up Dr. Jerry Wise on YouTube – specifically on self differentiation and Boundaries. Stop enabling your husband. You need to protect yourself and your child from their dysfunctional and toxic relationship.
Both you and your husband need to polish up your backbones. You are going to be parents. And if you don’t start setting these hard boundaries now, your MIL will think she can raise your child for you.
Set these boundaries. In writing. Email, text, whatever, AND in person.
Have the conversation and then follow up with a text or email that says “Just so we are clear, here’s a recap of our discussion” Don’t give her a chance to say that they were never communicated to her. Tell her that she won’t be allowed over more than 2 days a week and ONLY when you and your husband’s schedule allows. Not when she wants. Any other times of her trying to come over will be met with not answering the door.
When she visits, she’s out by 6 (or whatever time works for you) Unless you specifically invite her to stay for dinner. She doesn’t get to stay until 9-10 at nite. You will be adjusting to being parents and will not have the bandwidth to entertain a grown ass woman with boundary issues.
You both have to be willing to do this now. For your own sanity and for your child. Who cares if she gets mad? If she starts yelling, tell her you will continue the conversation when she is calm and able to act like an adult and hang up.
You and your husband need to get on the same page as to what role/ level of contact you want with his mother then he needs to communicate this in no uncertain terms. Does he want her to move closer at all? If not his script needs to be something like…
You can obviously move wherever you like, but I’m not invested in you moving closer. Based on the lifestyle we have we may have time to see you one afternoon a month (or whatever you decide). If you’re unhappy with where you live and want to choose a different city or neighborhood to move to feel free, but keep in mind that we won’t be ambassadors for you to our city, tour guides or your social life. You need to make decisions based on where you can find friends/hobbies/jobs etc since we can’t play that role for you.
Cue her meltdown ”why can’t you? Why do you hate me? Why are you being so terrible? Everything I have done for you!!! Faaaaaaaaaamily! Etc” At the point your husband says, it sounds like you’re having a difficult time with our reality. I’m going to pop off the phone and give you time to pull yourself together. I just think it would be irresponsible for you to sell your home without me being completely honest about what our real life and commitments look like. We’ll talk again when you have time to process.
Expect a freeze out (that would be awesome) or for her to explode with the guilt trips via text or weaponizing other family members. Your husband will have to mute her and refuse to discuss this with other family members outside of unfortunately mom is upset right now that we won’t have a lot of time to entertain her if she moves. It’s unfortunate she is dragging you into this, but our schedule is no one’s business. Not even hers, much less yours. He just needs to hold firm and do not give explanations. Not what you’re doing, what specific things take up your time or why she can’t be involved more. Nothing. Even if you needed all the time to wash your hair that’s still your prerogative.
This is his mom and he needs to buck up and take her on. You need to stay out of it and you both need to refuse to let her triangulate you both. He needs to shut it down if she blames it on you and you need to shut it down if she contacts you and tries to get you to agree that she would be so much help with your LO.
Your husband needs therapy. I too am an only of a single parent and they tend to take over. You HAVE to shut them down.
Just flat out tell her not to move there or i see divorce in your future
Boundaries without consequences are just suggestions.
Create consequences for boundary breaches and stick to them.
Call it toddler practice because you’ll never get enough practice to deal with your own attitude thrown back at you from a mini form of yourself… 😉
Time outs, phone blocks if messages are too much, phone for wellness checks when she threatens self harm or suicide, there’ll be more suggestions coming in from others.
NEVER give her keys to your safe space and don’t take keys to hers.
Protect your baby! That’s your priority. Her feefees are hers to manage, not yours or your husbands. He needs to get used to her being upset with him. Its definitely not easy tho. You’ve got this. You’ve got us! 😉
Read the book about children of immature parents. My husband recently bought it and it was pretty helpful in managing our expectations, and seeing what’s really possible.
Tell husband if HE lets her move to your city, you’re moving away. Start actively searching for a place NOW.
It honestly doesn’t matter if MIL listens to your husband or not. She doesn’t have to “listen” or “understand” for you to set and enforce boundaries. It’s not a negotiation where the other side has to agree.
You (or your husband) needs to tell her how it’s going to be, and if she tries to argue, you respond with “this isn’t up for debate.” If she cries, you tell her “okay, I’m going to hang up now and give you some time to collect yourself” – and then actually hang up. If she yells or takes a tone, you respond with “I won’t be spoken to like that. I’m going to hang up now” – and then hang up.
If she shows up uninvited – don’t answer the door. Don’t let her in your home at all. Don’t change your plans for her, even if your plans are just “sit at home in sweatpants and eat dry cereal out of a mug.” If she cries, gets mad, throws a fit – oh well 🤷🏻♀️ “We’ve told you that this is a boundary for us. We don’t accept drop-in visitors. We will invite you over when we’re up for company.”
Or, when she expects you to drop everything and go do something with her – “We aren’t available to do xyz. Please ask us farther in advance next time.” Or – “That doesn’t work for us, but I hope you have fun!”
When she asks to babysit – “We already have it covered, thanks. We’ll let you know if we ever need you to babysit.” (Hint: you won’t need her to babysit, even if you do need a sitter.)
And don’t ever, ever lend this woman a key to your home. It’s extremely easy to have keys copied.
Boundaries are for your (general you) behavior not the other person’s. Other people get rules, you enforce boundaries.
Rule: MIL doesn’t come over uninvited.
Boundary: You/husband don’t let her in the door. “Now is not a good time for us.” Then close the door. The door is there for your use, not hers. If you can, install a locking steel-screen door. I love mine. It allows the door being opened but still safely secure so no one can barge in.
Rule: MIL stays only 60 minutes.
Boundary: MIL is no longer invited to your home. All meetings happen at neutral locations.
Your husband should Google and read Harpy’s Child to see how that resonates with him. If it does, he then has resources for how to proceed. He also needs a better therapist as this one isn’t serving him well. A therapist who specializes in addictive behaviors is usually most well trained for manipulative personalities.
You need to continue to be empathetic but also not engaged with their dynamics. Your husband shouldn’t use you as his sounding board, or “meat shield” to deflect from him having to do the emotional lifting with is mother. That’s what his therapist is for. It’s often noted that when the partner has to deal with their own parent, they nope out of the relationship more quickly.
There are probably thousands of people who live within 15 minutes of you. She just becomes another one of them that you have no dealings with.
You are in for a hell of a ride. If you don’t want visits when you deliver your baby, let all your care team know that mil is not allowed in! Start to put you mama bear skin on, bc this woman will want to take over your motherhood, if husband doesn’t do anything you will have to do, let her call you mean, bit** to the world, you mental healthy and your baby goes above her wishes, keep your doors always locked, if showed up unannounced? Do not open the door, she will only be 24/7 only if you allow it.
You said you don’t know how to communicate your boundaries but you can practice.
Think of whatever she may say or has said in the past. Any way she has (mis)behaved and then come up with how you could respond. You can even schedule some role playing sessions where you and husband alternate being the MIL.
Use your past experience with her like she yells:
Why are you yelling?
Don’t yell at me or this conversation is over/I will leave/I’ll ask you to leave.
I’m trying to tell you something. Are you even listening?
This is not about you, it’s about us (Not “me”. Never me, always “us “!). It’s about what we want and need.
Stuff like that. I’m sure you can come up with so much more because you know her and her shenanigans better than anybody else.
Practice being firm. And practice “If you do/don’t we will have to limit our contact to once a week/month/whatever.”
Practice until you feel more confident. Good luck!
Boundaries are not words. Boundary are actions.
Decide what you will not accept and then do not accept it.
IRL, this means that if you decide your boundary is “we do not accept uninvited guests” then you enforce that by not opening the door to uninvited guests. If she pounds on the door or has a lawn tantrum, call the police.
Make sure she does not have a key. Consider getting a home security system/ video doorbell. (You didn’t have to answer – or even see the ring to audible – but you can record her shenanigans)
Do not give her a key. Make sure windows are down and locked. Show your husband the comments on this post. Look up your closest VRBO and get a portable pack and play for when you leave with baby. Your house now has visiting hours, hold to them. Always when DH is home. Record her tantrum. You can always use it against her.
I don’t have much advice for you but I just wanted to say that it’s okay to tell her no. Let her have her tantrums. Don’t get emotional and overwhelmed just detach emotionally and hold your ground. She has no right to destroy your peace.
[removed]
Husband needs to go to therapy himself to address why he can’t communicate boundaries and implement consequences.
You are collaboratively going to have to come up with strategies on how to manage the behaviour thats going to occur ie if she turns up uninvited no-one answers the door even if she tantrums and bangs for half an hour she does not get let in.
It will be hard. But you either protect your peace or be miserable. You are also going to have to make some personal decisions around consequences for your husband if/when he fails to enforce boundaries and consequences to show that you mean business … do you have friends/family you and bubs can go stay with?
I would suggest writing her an email. He can lay out everything he feels and all the boundaries. And let her know in the email that it’s probably best to communicate, because she doesn’t listen to him when he tries talking to her
My husband has a mother like this. She refused to listen to him/his needs/wants/boundaries, manipulated him “oh that never happened/it didn’t happen like that/you’re too sensitive/but what about meeee” etc.
It devolved into her threatening to hurt him for not letting him inside and trying to physically force her way into our house. Our neighbor had to call the cops. We’ve gone No Contact & have to repeatedly block any new social media accounts she creates to try reaching out to him with. It’s been 2 years, and just last week we had to block yet another account she created & friended him with on Facebook.
Your husband needs to grow a backbone & put his foot down. Let her have her tantrum, but do not cave in. State it clearly that she is no longer welcome in your home. Any and all visits will be at her home so that you can leave as soon as you want to, since getting her to leave yours is near impossible. When she corners you in public, you will need to stay firm and leave the store/park/etc when she refuses to listen. I say “when” because it will happen.
This is a tough road you’re on. It mostly hinges on your husband standing with you fully. If he doesn’t…. I think you know.
[removed]
Get him into therapy.
I’d be moving states once she’s settled. If one of you could transfer, great. If not, start job hunting now. Do not give her a key, do not answer the door if she hasn’t called, and for goodness sake, say no sometimes.
He needs to be having these conversations with his mother and walking away when she throws her tantrums or talks bad about you or does anything that is not conducive to a healthy conversation every single time.
You guys should also put in a ring camera and other cameras around the property with audio. Never ever give her a key to your home, and neither of you leave your keys in plain sight where she can get to them. If she shows up unannounced, do not answer the door, do not answer phone calls, do not answer texts. And if she becomes a nuisance banging on the front door or hollering whatever, call the police and have her trespassed every single time.
Is your husband in therapy because if he isn’t he should be as well so that he can work through the issues about his mother and also to help learn tools to set and keep those boundaries and if all of that doesn’t work invest in an air horn and every time she decides to attempt to get her way blow it and have your husband get one too to do the same thing
I’ll help you.
Short & sweet. ‘MIL, we’ve told you moving nearer to us is not a good idea. Don’t move here.’ Stop talking (OP & SO)
She replies: bs bs bs, boo hoo , blah blah
Direct. ‘We have busy lives. You cannot come to our house.’
Repeat. ‘We are at work. No, you cannot come over.’
‘We are busy. We cannot see you today/this weekend/etc.’
When you are ready to see her, your terms. ‘We can come to your house Saturday at 3.’ Plan to leave at 4:30. Code word to the hubs for the time to go. When she complains, remind her of #1 above. Over and over and over again.
No arguing, no back & forth, no discussion. Just stop talking, pack up, & go.
If it helps, keep a calendar of her requests, your denials, her time with you, etc. so she can’t bamboozle you. Not to show her. To reassure you.
I know it sounds harsh, but it looks to me that she will do everything in her power to get her way & she is counting on you both to be nicer than her & give in. IMO, the best way to stick to your boundaries is to talk less. That way you won’t get tricked & (bonus) it will drive her crazy.
Keep in mind that one day your child will be throwing tantrums. You will not give into those tantrums, no matter how difficult it feels, because you don’t want to teach your child that throwing a tantrum gets them what they want. Otherwise they learn to manipulate you and possibly grow into an entitled jerk. You will stand firm as a parent and let them learn that tantrums don’t work.
You need to apply the same logic to your MIL. She can throw all the tantrums she wants, but they don’t work unless you allow it. As one commenter has said, what is the worst thing that can happen if you don’t allow her manipulations to work? She gets mad? So what.
Good luck!
https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method The Grey Rock Method: A Technique for Handling Toxic Behavior
Seriously. It can work!!!
I struggled to tell my own mother no, up until I had my first child. Seeing my baby put things into perspective in a way I’m not sure anything else could have. And when I said no those first 2 or 3 times, there was definite push back and hostility but in fairly short order, she got in line. And saying no has gotten easier and easier. My point is, OP, you need to start practicing what you’ll say in situations that need shut down so that you can be prepared. But you may be surprised to find growing a backbone is easier when you’re protecting your baby.
That being said, boundaries aren’t for your MIL, the consequences are. Boundaries without consequences are just suggestions and suggestions often get ignored. Your husband needs to have the conversation with his mother that you will NOT be her entertainment director nor will she be your nanny. If she moves closer, she will need to make her own life separate from yours and understand that your home is not the revolving door for MIL to relive motherhood or to set up some kind of messed up matriarchy. Your weekends will not be spent at her whim and your child will not be up for grabs. He needs to tell her doors will stay closed and locked without explicit invitation, phones will be turned off for tantrums, and visits will become further and further apart should she choose to push those boundaries. He needs to be calm but assertive. When she gets upset, he needs to stay calm and exit the conversation with a reiteration: “I know this isn’t what you might have wanted but this is what we want and as such, isn’t up for discussion. I hope you’ll come to terms with the new family dynamics so we can move forward together in our new roles as parents and grandparents.” And then he needs to leave her with her own feelings to deal with. He needs to stop rewarding piss poor behavior and she needs to learn her place.
Good luck, OP. I sure hope y’all find the where withal to speak up for yourselves.
Maybe a text message, sent from his phone that you write together, explaining that (as you told us) you and DH are adults with busy lives and that you guys want to let her know before she spends money on a new house and a move, that she won’t be seeing you or your child daily or weekly. That the first several weeks after the baby comes you guys aren’t entertaining guests. That not much will change in the amount of interaction between you guys and her. You are starting your own nuclear family and that’s where your time and attention will be.
If she calls to bitch, ignore it. If she sends a wall of text or leaves a screaming voicemail, text back that while you are sorry she is upset, as an adult it is her job to manage her emotions properly and that you two won’t be tolerating verbal or emotional abuse. That boundaries are being set and that if her expectations were different, she should reconsider the move.
I know it’s hard for your husband to stand up to someone who has installed all the buttons so she can push them as needed, but you need to protect your peace, especially in the weeks leading up to delivery, and the weeks postpartum. And ultimately protect your child from the narcissistic abuse that your husband suffered.
So. Hubby needs therapy too.
But… MIL never gets a key to your home. NEVER. If she gets mad, and she probably will, oh well.
She had to ASK ahead of time. Preferably 24 hours ahead. And she has to wait for an answer.
NEVER leave your door unlocked, so she needs to knock and you have to grant her access to enter. If she shows up at a time not agreed upon, she doesn’t get to come in. In fact, you don’t even acknowledge that she is at the door.
She very likely won’t like any of these. She very likely will get mad and throw a fit. Let her. Don’t cave. If you cave, that just shows her if she pouts enough you’ll cave. Good luck.
i think underlining the fact that he’s scared to have any big conversations with her might be key. big talks with family go badly sometimes, but when it consistently results in punishment/disaster, she’s ruling with an iron fist. as long as he doesn’t bump her, he has some peace. in a healthy relationship, everyone has the right to bump each other at times.
the other thing i’d suggest is setting it as an ultimatum. ‘DH, we need to speak directly to MIL about how she won’t be allowed to invade before she moves and before the baby is born. if being told no makes her change her mind on wanting to live near us, she should know that before she commits to the move. i know you don’t want to talk to her, but i will not accept this once the baby is born, so i will speak to her if you will not. i think it would be better for you to break the news after we plan what to say, but this cannot wait.’
it sucks, but if he can’t find the strength to do this now, you may have to do it – and i don’t see other solutions outside elaborate concealment of your schedules including giving birth and nesting. i think it’s time to grab the wheel, because currently he’s praying you’ll just give in, even if he doesn’t know it. when he asks ‘what’s the point’ because MIL pretends not to understand, you can answer ‘we are going to send a followup text or email with an outline of the same boundaries, and when she ‘forgets’ we will calmly tell her to reread the email’.
Ohh boy. She needs to realize, and your husband has to back it up, that just because she lives down the street does not mean she gets the relationship she wants. Particularly when baby arrives. Doors will remain locked, phones unanswered, and if she continues to darken your doorstep she will land in NC. If she won’t leave the porch, have cops trespass her. You don’t even need to give her any reason besides “no”. Like it’s quoted here, no is a complete sentence. She demands to know why? “I said no.”
She’s counting on your husband to revert to the don’t rock the boat behavior she’s instilled in him. Lemon clot/scrotum squat essay is a good start. Plus..she doesn’t get a parental role in your life or your baby’s life. Grandparents have privileges, not rights and you are the one who controls her access. I’d get accustomed to being the bad guy, it’s good experience for when your baby is a toddler. Practice saying no in a mirror, it gets easier the more you do it.
You can do this. We all can hear your inner mama bear waking up. Congratulations on your baby.
He needs to tell his mother that he’s being considered for a promotion that involves a move potentially across the country and that he won’t know whether or not he gets said promotion for 4 to 6 months lol
“She throws a tantrum” let her. Show her the door and make her leave. Give her her purse and jacket and tell her to leave. She will throw a tantrum, let here, as she is leaving. You are not responsible for her emotions. You and your husband need to retrain her like a child. Bad behavior has consequences. Timeout. Husband has been trained to appease her. He needs to retrain her and himself. Absolutely do not give her a key. If she shows up, tell her you are not receiving guests. Shut the door. Ignore any further attempts. Retrain her. If she calls ahead of time and makes a time to visit- reward that behavior. When she leaves on time – reward her. But stick together.
Chaos will happen. Guilt will be handed out like candy. Tears will fall. But if you stick to the boundaries eventually you will teach her how to treat you both as adults. Get your husband in therapy.
Good luck. Start now before LO is here.
If he won’t do it, then you will have to. This does put you in the position of being the “evil daughter-in-law, taking my baby away!” So if you don’t already deal with that from her, you will. Which is why the advice is always to handle your own family. And anything you tell her, she will go behind your back and ask your DH and wear him down until she gets her way. So he needs to be prepared for that. Y’all need to communicate with each other first and foremost, and decide what behavior will not be tolerated. And if you tell MIL to check with you, then your DH needs to have rehearsed telling her “let me check with OP first.”
My advice:
Your main problem at this moment is your husband. He needs to be the one to tell her flatly the door will be locked and she will only be admitted if invited to visit when it is convenient to you and your baby. If he won’t do that, you can’t force him.
What you can do instead is to let him know the door will be locked and she will not be admitted without a prior invite approved by you. Make it clear if he chooses to let her in at any other time, you will take the baby and leave until she is gone. Period.
This is setting and maintaining a healthy boundary for you and your child which is your first responsibility as a parent. Remind him he has said he agrees with you and you are on the same page, he is just unwilling to convey that message to his mother adequately, so you are making it clear the boundary will absolutely without fail be upheld.
I would say you also need to make plans in case you need to move out to enforce your message. If there is a friend or family you and the baby can stay with that would be awesome. If not, look into options for short term stays like air bnb that rent weekly.
Oh? And about the never change with his mom. No, he cannot change her behavior. What he can do is change his behaviors and reactions to her behaviors.
If he doesn’t feel comfortable telling her verbally she’s not going to be visiting without an invitation, he can write it to her in a letter. He does not have to listen if she calls screaming. Just let it go to voicemail, or better still tell her the topic is not up for discussion so if she cannot talk about anything else he’s going to hang up. Then do it. Repeatedly, as many times as necessary.
You get in contact with legal counsel and figure out your options. Separation, divorce, custody, child support… then you start making your plans to move out. His mother can see your baby on his custody time and that’s it.
If he won’t protect you, then the law will have to.
“He doesn’t know why everything he or we do is a personal slight in her mind” Because it works. It’s the mechanism she installed in her son growing up, so that she gets her way. It’s her own personal “Don’t hurt mommy’s feelings” button he was raised with. You’ve seen the office supply commercial with the easy button? This is her easy button. Your spouse needs to understand, just because she’s mad doesn’t mean you are wrong.
OP, that’s the point- you tell them what the boundary is and what you will do if they don’t respect it, and then peace out. There is no conversation, there is no explaining. That’s why boundaries exist! Imagine if she sat there and listened to your reasons why and didn’t argue or give you trouble- if she was that kind of person, you wouldn’t need boundaries in the first place!! You see?
If she fights it, then just say, “I hear you, but this is not up for discussion. Please respect us or we will [natural consequence].” Repeat if necessary.
Your husband will probably want to text this. If she calls, just ignore it and text her to text back.
Ex. “Mom, I love you and I appreciate that you want more time with me. However, I can’t give you the time and attention that you want. If you do decide to move here, you need to know that we will only see you when we are up for it, probably once every two weeks max. If you push us for more time or intrude on us, I will skip the following visit. This doesn’t mean I don’t love you, I just want my own space.”
My husband says that these are relationship-ending words, but if he were in your shoes, he would say them before she even suggested the 15 minutes away because her behavior is too much and she needs to “wake up.”
If you didn’t invite her and she shows up, don’t answer the door. When it’s time for her to leave after a legit visit, shove her out the door. Do not answer phone calls or texts. She is NOT entitled to your time whenever she wants. Do not invite her on your family outings. Don’t even tell her. “Nope, not available”
And tell your husband that you are his primary family now. And he is no longer obligated to accommodate his mother. He is obligated to accommodate you and your child. He needs to man up.
Your husband has to accept that he is not responsible for her emotions. If she gets mad sad, cries ect its not his job to regulate those feelings for her. He has to let go of any guilt he feels. He has to set the expectations now that you have your own lives and your day ro day activities will not include her. She is not your friend, she is a parent and children leave their parents and make their own families. These conversations need to happen. Before she tries to move… so hopefully she decides not to.
“‘I see you are very emotional right now, I think it’s best that you go home until you can manage your emotions in a calm manner. Phone us when you are feeling calmer,” while you gather her coat and purse and usher her out, locking the door after her.
If your MIL moves close to you, would your husband be willing to exclude her from your home? Perhaps only allowing her in by invite and on occasions where there are other guests?
If your husband isn’t willing to tell his mother this himself, would you specify it as your boundary and have that chat? After all, if she’s blaming you for everything, you might as well use the power she assumes you have.
I am not trying to be mean, but since your husband won’t set boundaries with his mother, don’t be surprised when she moves in. And he will let her so he doesn’t have to deal with the fallout. And then she will completely take over the house and your lives. Resentment will kick in and the only way you will get any peace is divorce. Talking from experience
Setting boundaries:
“Mom, we told you not to move here, because we knew we would not be available to have guests all the time with a newborn. You decided to do so anyway. I’m sorry if you’re bored/lonely/just wanted to (fill in the blank) for a minute, but we were clear we are unavailable.” Don’t let her come over “just for a minute,” because she has proven she will stay until you fall asleep/refuse to leave for her hotel.
If her feelings get hurt, she needs to deal with it. Her feelings are hurt because she pushed boundaries and faced the consequences for them; that’s on her, not you, and she needs to handle her disappointment like an adult and learn from it (not repeat the behavior). Hurt feelings are often gift wrapped in a guilt trip, but the consequences are a direct result of her trying to boundary stomp.
“No is a complete sentence.” Don’t give her reasons, because she will just pick holes in it and argue with them. Tell her you are sorry but you can’t, but will reach out to her when you are available. If she shows up uninvited/unannounced, don’t open the door. Do NOT give her a key “for emergencies,” because she will abuse the privilege and let herself in as she pleases. “Oh, I was just helping you fold laundry/tidy up a bit.” Especially if she is the type prone to snooping.
Stick to your no: She can guilt, manipulate, cry, throw a fit, give the silent treatment etc, but do not give in! Rewarding bad behavior teaches her she can a) get away with it and b) continue the behavior. Another phrase I have to repeat with my kids is “Just because you don’t like my answer, doesn’t mean it’s going to change.” This is especially helpful with those who like to badger you, hoping they can wear you down into giving in.
Enforce consequences: If she crosses a boundary, put her in time out, say a week. If the behavior changes, move on. If it does not, the time out increases.
Good luck!
If DH wants to set boundaries but is paralysed when it comes to confronting his mother- would he be ok with you doing it? The danger there is that she goes behind your back to him when she doesn’t like what you say. This is why you have to be a united team.
Move. Seriously, to another state or another country she had got her hooks into him and she’s not gonna let go.
Or, he is going to have to step up properly and lay down the law and mean it. And keep repeating and reinforcing until she gets the message, her “tantrums” are pure manipulation.
I think your therapist is wrong. Your therapist is supposed to empower you, not make you helpless over a spouse you can’t control. You can’t force your husband to do anything, what if he never speaks up and MIL moves? A good therapist helps you figure out what is in your control and go from there. Your husband doesn’t like setting boundaries and avoids it. Your MIL doesn’t listen to boundaries. When you get involved, she makes accusations and name calls. AND when baby is here, she’ll probably accuse you of withholding the grandchild.
Personally, I think you should be prepared for her to do whatever she wants and start making life difficult for her. Make it clear to your husband that if he doesn’t keep her away, he’s going to deal with the fallout. Get a doorbell cam, disable the bell and keep your doors locked. Get motion activated sprinklers or a motion activated alarm and put them near the windows. When she says she wants to help, tell her “helping considers what the person you’re helping needed. You couldn’t even handle being told to not move close to us, so no, you’re not going to be helpful.” She says she wants x, just say “no, we’re not doing that.” Invite her to visit once in awhile, give her specific times snd tell her to leave once that time happens. If she visits without permission, don’t answer. If husband lets her in, pack up baby and leave, she’s not going to be rewarded for visiting without permission.
It’s like they say- when you know you’re going to be accused of being the villain anyway, lean into it and buy a robe.
“If you come to this city we’ll move.” And mean it.
When I have to have difficult conversations, I often sort of role play them in my head as if I were talking to a stranger (albeit a rational one, which may be part of the problem here). Since I don’t know what the stranger’s viewpoint is, I have to clarify why whatever I’m saying is “what good looks like to me.”
DH is going to have to sit down and write things out in bullet points for himself once he puts his Big Boy Underoos on. He will need to plan to have the conversation with his mother and set himself up for success: tell her in advance that he needs to discuss something important with her; tell her she needs to listen without responding while he is talking/no interrupting; clearly and unequivocally state the boundaries using simple words; record the discussion so that there can be no room for “interpretation”, and tell her he is going to do so before he starts, if that seems prudent. The discussion should happen when everyone is rested, has at least reasonably full stomachs, and empty bladders. He should also consider telling her that he understands that she may be upset by some of what he will say, and that while it is not his intention to upset her, she is responsible for her reactions and emotions.
He needs to understand that he has signed up for protecting his child’s peace, and yours, and that this is not negotiable. He has to man up: if she rants and raves, well, she does; that’s not going to kill him (he is responsible for HIS emotions!). You and LO have to come first, always.
Best of luck.
Op, it’s good to read you have a therapist you’re working with. And it’s good to get this rant off your chest. Maybe show this post to your therapist and talk through how stuck you feel between DH who doesn’t have the skills/will to tell his Smother her 24/7 access has been revoked and your struggles to directly enforce a policy of limited access.
If it were me, she‘d be told visiting hours are x on y date, otherwise I’m not available, I’m not hosting, so kindly fuck off.
Would it be easier for him to set boundaries via text/email?
‘We are concerned that you are making the decision to move solely because of us. We want you to know that we don’t want you uprooting your life with false expectations and you need to consider your own life (your job, social connections, hobbies, lifestyle) before making this big decision.
We may not be living here long term. You may move your life here only for us to move away, we have no definite plans about where we will be living in the future. I want to be clear on this as we need to feel free to move without any obligation as I’ve been upfront.
When you visit, our focus has been on seeing you. Day to day life will be very different. We have busy lives and won’t be available the same way you are when we visit. We have friends and other family we also want to see and we also need to spend time as a family of three. You won’t be able to just pop over and visit whenever, we’ll make plans ahead of time that suit just like we do for everyone else.’
She can show up all she wants to, but you don’t have to answer the damn door if you don’t want to. Tell her on text with your husband that you guys will not entertain her without calling or texting first to see if you’re available, then tell her this is the hours you guys have available 2-3 hours at a time. If she doesn’t follow this new boundaries she will be out on time out be it not visiting for 2 weeks at a time, oh she showed up again without calling add another week to the time out. It’s your lives to control not hers. Stick to the boundaries, call or text wait for the response for availability, or no contact with you guys. Be selfish if you’re not comfortable with confrontation. She can live next door and you guys still don’t have to answer the door, it’s your home and you guys alone control who comes and goes
Tell her that weather she moves closer or not she will not be allowed in the hospital when you give birth and she won’t be allowed in your home the first month after you give birth.
Tell your husband he can go out to visit her but she is not welcomed in your home.
For every boundary stomp it’s another 30 days of time out.
Stand your ground with her.
The boundaries need consequences.
If she comes to the hospital, she won’t be allowed in the ward.
If she’s waiting for you when you’re discharged, your husband exits the vehicle and tells her to get lost and she does not get rewarded with a peek at the baby.
All time spent with MIL must be agreed upon by both of you, as you will have a newborn. If she tries to push for more time, you take space in escalating increments. The first instance, no visits for a week (I would say a month, but I feel like you might not be ready for that.) The second time, two weeks. And so on.
The idea is that you and your husband figure this out now, and he knows what’s expected of him. Otherwise, every time she oversteps a boundary, either you’re fighting with him or you don’t enforce any consequences at all. And she keeps doing whatever she wants.
Look your going to have to take a deep breath and be blunt. You’re gonna have to accept she will throw tantrums and she will push boundaries. Yes your husband should deal with this but it sounds like he can’t or won’t so you need to choose.
Either you deal with this and live through the fallout or you make peace with this being your life.
In reality what is the fallout. She cries. Is this really the end of the world. Just hang up the phone or walk away.
She shouts/guilt trips. Again hang up or walk away.
She cannot throw a tantrum if you’re not there.
Write out what you want to say then cut out all the faf that is you trying to be polite. Either hand deliver, text or email it to her because it doesn’t sound like you could say this to her face.
Tell her regardless of how close she lives. You will not be spending time with her daily. Spending time together has to be agreed in advance. If you turn up at my home unannounced I will not open the door or answer your calls. If you send your flying monkeys around they will be blocked and so will you. I am an adult with a busy life and I will not change my schedule for you.
“Before you make a huge decision like selling your home and moving, I want you to understand that the amount of contact we have on a day to day basis will not change. We have a schedule and routine that works for us, and we are looking foward to enjoying our new baby, and leaning into our new lives as a family of three. We will not be hosting daily, or even weekly visits. We obviously can’t stop you from moving, but we do have our own family to focus on, and we won’t be pressured into changing our lives to accommodate a choice you are making.”
Oh this is so stressful when husband doesn’t have a spine. Best of luck, OP. I went through a similar scenario after I had my first child, and my marriage has never fully recovered.
You and your husband are both adults wanting to protect your time together and with your new baby so it’s time to grow a nice shiny spine and have the difficult conversations. This means sitting down with her and explaining how it’s going to be. She will yell so get up and walk out. Explain to her that once she calms down, and can have a calm conversation, you’ll resume. She’ll manipulate so cut contact and tell her you won’t be manipulated. If you can’t think on the spot, then write things down. Yelling sucks but it’s not like she’s breaking bones. It’s a question of just turning it on her and asking her why she’s yelling when you’re having a sensible conversation. But please, step up and protect yourselves by using your voices – both DH and you.
When phrasing boundaries it’s important to be unmoving and clear on your own behaviors. You can’t control what she does whether it’s moving close or showing up unexpectedly. You can control what you do.
“We aren’t having guests for the first month after birth.”
“Well I’ll be coming this weekend.”
“Do whatever you like, but we are not having anyone come to the house until a month after. If you don’t respect that it will be longer before we will be able to make time to see you.”
Clearly state your rule, the consequence, and follow it. How she handles it, her emotions and tantrums, is not your problem. She’s been on this earth long enough to figure out how to manage her own expectations and disappointments.
The problem is with people who don’t respect boundaries, they will try and push you around to figure out what your weakness is. The second you give in, they will use that method to keep pushing you for more. So that part is on you to stay unmoving and don’t give in.
You’re trying to set boundaries with his mom when you should be setting boundaries with HIM. Firm immovable boundaries with big old consequences attached. If he chooses his mother over his family, it’s only natural that there would be devastating consequences
When you withhold the consequences, you enable the toxicity. Based on your posts, he enables his mother because standing up to her is too hard. Don’t start enabling him simply because he can’t say no. That’s just choosing to be dysfunctional
Keep pulling at the thread in conversations with your husband. Why do you find it difficult to enforce boundaries? Because MIL gets angry, tantrums, so on. Ok, is it hard for you to sit with her anger? Why is that? It may sound a little trite, but the “let them” approach may be what you both need to implement in your lives. She doesn’t like hearing no and has a tantrum? Let her. But her tantrum doesn’t change your actions.
I think you’re a bit behind on how visits should be handled. I think that 10min needs to be WAY different. It’s sweet that you want to support your spouse, but what I learned way too late as well, was that I didn’t have to be available just bc she was visiting. It’s not your mom. And once I took some space, the burden completely fell on him. And you know what? He didn’t like that. And he didn’t like it enough to actually make changes.
I’m assuming she will want to visit to look at properties at some point. When she does, don’t be available. Make plans that keep you away 99.9% of the visit. You can only control yourself, but trust me, if you leave him to entertain her by himself, he’ll muster the courage to fight a little harder for your space. Your boundary is that if she’s here, I’m not.
As soon as she comes. You leave. Don’t open the door. She’s going to throw a tantrum, but you need to stick to your guns
This is the type of person you need to be direct with. Tell her she can expect to see you once every 6 weeks and if that you don’t see a need for her to move closer. And if she tries to push you around you will move away from her and cut her off. I’m telling you, you cannot get far enough ahead of a person like this. She won’t listen and she will destroy your life. That’s her intention. She’s planning it despite your husband telling her she’s not wanted. She will absolutely ruin your life. Cut the cord now
Stop thinking that MIL has to understand or agree with your rules. All you have to do is state them. If she starts yelling or trying to negotiate, tell her “the rules are the rules” and “oops, my pot of water is boiling over – gotta go!”. You don’t have to listen to her tantrum. You have rules for your family and your home. Anyone who doesn’t agree doesn’t have to be involved with you.
I also thought that you could have index cards that you write the common problems with MIL and actually write what you want to say to her. Have these handy, especially for phone calls and texts. You have to make a decision, are you so scared to confront her that you’re willing to be miserable? This isn’t just a visit, this is her moving near you…this is your life (unless you move which is easier said than done). On top of that, you have a LO coming. Imagine how overwhelming she will be about who gets to “raise” LO. You have to start putting her in her place NOW so things aren’t horrendous when LO arrives.
Maybe only agree to see her as much as you did before she moved. Definitely do not see her without DH around. Good luck!!
Def don’t give her a house key. It’s also on you guys whether you open the door to let her in. She’s like a toddler and repetition is important.