All responses must be A) sincere, B) polite, and C) strictly watsonian in nature. If “watsonian” or “doylist” is new to you, please review the full rules here.
No edition wars or gripings about creators/owners of works. Doylist griping about Star Wars in particular is subject to permanent ban on first offense.
We are not here to discuss or complain about the real world.
Questions about who would prevail in a conflict/competition (not just combat) fit better on r/whowouldwin. Questions about very open-ended hypotheticals fit better on r/whatiffiction.
I think this is one of the things you’re supposed to think about, and thus the story doesn’t just hand you an answer.
But for me, no, it doesn’t exist. Free will is the ability to select between two or more available options via a force of will.
If Dr. Manhattan can’t be wrong, then there was never more than one available option, and thus no room for free will to exist. And the kicker is that it isn’t even because the Doc knows what will happen. Even if he didn’t look, or never existed in the first place, the fact that it’s even possible necessitates the lack of free will. His knowledge is just an easy indicator that the structure of the universe is so.
This is really a question for philosphers on what the definition of free will is, but I personally think it does exist. Dr Manhattan knows what you will decide but he doesn’t make you decide that, you still made that decision on your own.
Considering even Doctor Manhattan agrees that “miracles” can happen, I’d argue he would argue he specifically knows he has no free will, but that he can’t guarantee the same for the rest of the characters.
Sure it does, he even says he can only see his own past and future. If he has foreseen an event, you could debate if the people involved still have free will…
It depends on what you’re defining as free will. If you mean the ability to act without coercion then it does exist. If you mean the ability to defy causality and act otherwise then it doesn’t exist.
In Chapter IX Dr. Manhattan “changes his mind” and admits that “thermodynamic miracles” “beyond the dreams of Heisenberg” exist, and are in fact numerous.
From a multiple-worlds perspective, Dr Manhattan simply sees which world he ends up in. If you chose differently then he foresaw, you’d simply end up in a different universe and his foresight has no consequences for your free will.
I think free will exists but TIME does not exist (or is massively changed) in Dr. Manhattan’s perspective.
People have identities, motivations, desires, needs, morals, values, all of those nice things. They eventually will make choices based on those factors.
But since Dr. Manhattan is uprooted from the usual human perception of time, he can observe or have seeming preknowledge of how other people exercise their free will.
If you go back to before John Wilkes booth shoots Abraham Lincoln, and wait for him to shoot him, did Booth have free will? You knew it was going to happen for a fact, and you didn’t interfere with it, so does that mean he had no choice.
It’s like that. Dr.Manhatten is basically time traveling to every point in his life at once. And he can’t interfere and change time, because his awareness forces him to follow one path.
So he doesn’t have free will so to speak, because he can’t use the knowledge he has to do what he wants. But other people do, it’s just that without Manhattens interference they’ll follow that one path. Because they chose it.
He sees all events that have, are and will happen, all at once. He’s viewing a timeline of events from outside of it. It’s a filmstrip to him.
But that doesn’t imply that the timeline always existed and there therefore there is no free will. No, that timeline was built as events occurred, as choices were made by beings who have free will. It’s just that he can ALSO see the events that haven’t yet occurred.
But he can’t do anything to change those events himself. He lost that ability when he “stepped outside” the timeline, so to speak. So in a sense, he no longer has free will because none of his actions can ever change the timeline.
This is also why he can’t see his own past or future: he effectively doesn’t have any. He’s outside time itself, no longer part of the timeline, so there’s in a sense nothing to see.
I’ve always considered the idea of foresight to not be against the concept of free will. Just because person A knows what person B is going to do does not mean they were not free to make the choice, it just means that person A really knows person B.
Or to put it another way, just because I know my nephew is going to ask me to give him ice cream every time I visit does not mean that he did not choose to ask me.
The only person without free will is Dr Manhattan himself. He sees the entire time stream all at once, he’s not making those decisions on the fly, he already knows what he’s going to do.
He can’t go back and change things. Meanwhile everybody else is just business as normal, doing what we done. You’re free to do anything you want, but Jon’s already seen it.
We can make certain choices that lead us down one path or another, but no one can avoid having to take a path, and even doing nothing is an option. The fact that he can see the future doesn’t change his free will; it just means he can better see where his choices will lead him.
For example, you record someone with your phone, choosing one of three objects freely. If you then watch the video again with someone who hasn’t seen it, you know what choice they will make in “their future,” which may seem like they are not free, but for the other person watching the video, they are still choosing freely because they don’t know the outcome yet and can’t influence it.
I know this sub is supposed to stick to Watsonian answers, but I feel like doing that with Watchmen misses 90% of the point, the entire work is a meta commentary.
Of course the characters don’t have free will. They can only do what Alan Moore makes them do.
When he takes Laurie to his Martian castle, he walks up the stairs and says she will follow. She is skeptical, asking why she would choose to do that. But he can’t hear her from down there, so she follows him up the stairs to ask again.
When he takes Laurie to his Martian castle, he walks up the stairs and says she will follow. She is skeptical, asking why she would choose to do that. But he can’t hear her from down there, so she follows him up the stairs to ask again.
Comments
Reminders for Commenters:
All responses must be A) sincere, B) polite, and C) strictly watsonian in nature. If “watsonian” or “doylist” is new to you, please review the full rules here.
No edition wars or gripings about creators/owners of works. Doylist griping about Star Wars in particular is subject to permanent ban on first offense.
We are not here to discuss or complain about the real world.
Questions about who would prevail in a conflict/competition (not just combat) fit better on r/whowouldwin. Questions about very open-ended hypotheticals fit better on r/whatiffiction.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
I think this is one of the things you’re supposed to think about, and thus the story doesn’t just hand you an answer.
But for me, no, it doesn’t exist. Free will is the ability to select between two or more available options via a force of will.
If Dr. Manhattan can’t be wrong, then there was never more than one available option, and thus no room for free will to exist. And the kicker is that it isn’t even because the Doc knows what will happen. Even if he didn’t look, or never existed in the first place, the fact that it’s even possible necessitates the lack of free will. His knowledge is just an easy indicator that the structure of the universe is so.
This is really a question for philosphers on what the definition of free will is, but I personally think it does exist. Dr Manhattan knows what you will decide but he doesn’t make you decide that, you still made that decision on your own.
Considering even Doctor Manhattan agrees that “miracles” can happen, I’d argue he would argue he specifically knows he has no free will, but that he can’t guarantee the same for the rest of the characters.
Sure it does, he even says he can only see his own past and future. If he has foreseen an event, you could debate if the people involved still have free will…
It always comes down to people arguing about how to define “free will”/”choice”/”decision”/etc.
It depends on what you’re defining as free will. If you mean the ability to act without coercion then it does exist. If you mean the ability to defy causality and act otherwise then it doesn’t exist.
If you ask Dr. Manhattan than No
We are all just puppets on strings manipulated by fate, it’s just that he can see the strings.
But here’s the thing right, if you can’t see the strings would you actually know the difference?
It’s very philosophical
Do you feel like you have free will? Interesting
<the Compatiblists enter the chat>
In Chapter IX Dr. Manhattan “changes his mind” and admits that “thermodynamic miracles” “beyond the dreams of Heisenberg” exist, and are in fact numerous.
So… the premise is just false to start with.
From a multiple-worlds perspective, Dr Manhattan simply sees which world he ends up in. If you chose differently then he foresaw, you’d simply end up in a different universe and his foresight has no consequences for your free will.
Just because someone wrote on a diary about your life in advance does it make your choices any less yours?
I don’t think soo.
I think free will exists but TIME does not exist (or is massively changed) in Dr. Manhattan’s perspective.
People have identities, motivations, desires, needs, morals, values, all of those nice things. They eventually will make choices based on those factors.
But since Dr. Manhattan is uprooted from the usual human perception of time, he can observe or have seeming preknowledge of how other people exercise their free will.
It’s not 100 percent accurate. Dr Manhattan just doesn’t care enough to try and change it
If you go back to before John Wilkes booth shoots Abraham Lincoln, and wait for him to shoot him, did Booth have free will? You knew it was going to happen for a fact, and you didn’t interfere with it, so does that mean he had no choice.
It’s like that. Dr.Manhatten is basically time traveling to every point in his life at once. And he can’t interfere and change time, because his awareness forces him to follow one path.
So he doesn’t have free will so to speak, because he can’t use the knowledge he has to do what he wants. But other people do, it’s just that without Manhattens interference they’ll follow that one path. Because they chose it.
Yes, free will exists…
…for all beings EXCEPT Manhattan.
He sees all events that have, are and will happen, all at once. He’s viewing a timeline of events from outside of it. It’s a filmstrip to him.
But that doesn’t imply that the timeline always existed and there therefore there is no free will. No, that timeline was built as events occurred, as choices were made by beings who have free will. It’s just that he can ALSO see the events that haven’t yet occurred.
But he can’t do anything to change those events himself. He lost that ability when he “stepped outside” the timeline, so to speak. So in a sense, he no longer has free will because none of his actions can ever change the timeline.
This is also why he can’t see his own past or future: he effectively doesn’t have any. He’s outside time itself, no longer part of the timeline, so there’s in a sense nothing to see.
I’ve always considered the idea of foresight to not be against the concept of free will. Just because person A knows what person B is going to do does not mean they were not free to make the choice, it just means that person A really knows person B.
Or to put it another way, just because I know my nephew is going to ask me to give him ice cream every time I visit does not mean that he did not choose to ask me.
The only person without free will is Dr Manhattan himself. He sees the entire time stream all at once, he’s not making those decisions on the fly, he already knows what he’s going to do.
He can’t go back and change things. Meanwhile everybody else is just business as normal, doing what we done. You’re free to do anything you want, but Jon’s already seen it.
How do you define “free will”?
We can make certain choices that lead us down one path or another, but no one can avoid having to take a path, and even doing nothing is an option. The fact that he can see the future doesn’t change his free will; it just means he can better see where his choices will lead him.
For example, you record someone with your phone, choosing one of three objects freely. If you then watch the video again with someone who hasn’t seen it, you know what choice they will make in “their future,” which may seem like they are not free, but for the other person watching the video, they are still choosing freely because they don’t know the outcome yet and can’t influence it.
Correct.
Free will also does not exist in our setting.
I know this sub is supposed to stick to Watsonian answers, but I feel like doing that with Watchmen misses 90% of the point, the entire work is a meta commentary.
Of course the characters don’t have free will. They can only do what Alan Moore makes them do.
When he takes Laurie to his Martian castle, he walks up the stairs and says she will follow. She is skeptical, asking why she would choose to do that. But he can’t hear her from down there, so she follows him up the stairs to ask again.
He is just a puppet that sees the strings.
When he takes Laurie to his Martian castle, he walks up the stairs and says she will follow. She is skeptical, asking why she would choose to do that. But he can’t hear her from down there, so she follows him up the stairs to ask again.
He is just a puppet that sees the strings.