We know what “toxic masculinity” looks like — what does “toxic femininity” look like to you?
We know what “toxic masculinity” looks like — what does “toxic femininity” look like to you?
r/AskWomen
We know what “toxic masculinity” looks like — what does “toxic femininity” look like to you?
Comments
Discrediting mothers who gave birth via c-section
What a “real woman” looks like. A real woman has curves, a real woman has boobs, a real woman has an ass.
If you’re rail thin, zero chest, no ass, you’re looked at like a child. Most clothes are made for bigger boobs (C cup and up) or made for women that actually have an ass. So finding a top and pants that fit and don’t sag is awful. Its demoralizing and makes you feel sub human in a way. But then you’re skinny, so you’re not allowed to talk about it and you’re not allowed to have those issues.
The first thing that comes to mind is the whole “I’m just a girl” thing. It’s toxic because the repetition and ubiquity of the “tee-hee, women aren’t people!” nonsense can normalize “women aren’t people” in people at large. Fuck off. That’s not the point of the song and that’s also not cute.
Edit: Also! This has already been said elsewhere in this thread but I want to echo it: Toxic femininity is also excluding trans women, or insisting that being assigned female at birth is the be-all and end-all of being a woman. Trans women are women. Trans men are men.
Being explained that trans women are disrespectful toward “real” women because we try to steal “their” identity
look for TERF
Internalized misogyny.
Helpless princess – in need of rescue all the time
The “I’m just a girl” and “girl math” trends. I don’t care how tongue-in-cheek it is. The nuance is going to be lost on most people. Ultimately, you’re undermining all of us, and especially yourself. I work hard to be taken seriously and I really hate this stuff.
Women should know how to cook, clean and care for kids just because they are women. As if we were born with a broom in one hand and a pot in the other.
The sense of superiority some women have for performing “femininity” better. The gender roles are what makes it so toxic on both ends. “You’re not a real woman unless/until _____” (had kids, got married, whatever)
Skinny women not able to talk about their issues because “they have none if they are skinny”
Im sorry? Yes we do. Ive had eating disorders my whole life and been underweight but ya know who cares bc its related to being skinny.
Also the whole “housewife” thing, just because im a woman does not mean i should stay home and cook, take care of a child and clean. I want to work
Tearing other women down out of jealousy.
Thinking being a woman makes you innately anything and every woman has to nurture/be even tempered/love kids/sacrifice/want to be pretty/be sweet etc. etc. to be worthy. In the same way, they think men also are innately anything, making it a toxic environment for everybody that doesn’t naturally fit the mold.
Ironically, a lot of the women who talk about toxic masculinity. The ones who call anything a man says “mansplaining” or make broad, sweeping statements about what men are or are not capable of. It’s mind blowing that they don’t see the issue in this line of thinking.
Women who pretend to be dumb or believe that being smart is an option.
A lot of these responses sound like the trad wife trend to me. I think trad wives are toxic femininity.
Judging other women for their appearance. Being agist. Judging women for what they wear.
The whole “divine femininity” bullshit that I see all over TikTok. I’m sick of seeing these videos of “empowered” women talking about how to find a man in his “masculinity” so you can reach your “divine feminine.” And then it’s being touted as feminism. Give me a break.
Any form of “you can’t be a woman if X” type shit. Anything that says womanhood and feminity has to be expressed/experienced a specific way.
This can be anything from discriminating against trans women to enforcing toxic beauty standards that are incompatible with the human body.
Its hard enough to be a woman as it is, toxic feminity just makes it harder by trying to cut down other women to feel a sense of superiority.
I think both toxic masculinity and toxic femininity would stem from following classical patriarchal values. Men can’t show emotions, women should be submissive and in the kitchen, etc etc
Bragging about submitting to a man
“Divine femininity” as a thing to attract “high value” men. The idea that being assertive or independent means you are acting “masculine,” which will make you unattractive to men. This also ties into the trad wife and SAHgf trends on social media these days.
Fake feminism. Calling other women sluts. Dating and fucking with someone’s (known) abusers, harassers and misogynists who haven’t changed at all. Bullying your new partner’s ex together. Justifying your character flaws with hormonal changes. Thriving thanks to a simp army, without real talent or knowledge. Treating your partner like a child. Momzilla mentality. Being a pickme in general. Shaming women who willingly embrace and enjoy traditional female roles.
“Women weren’t meant to…”, generally followed by nonsense designed to make us weak, dependent and without societal power. I really, really worry about a lot of “soft life” content geared towards women because of this. Like, yes, hustle culture is toxic and folks should be ok not constantly running the corporate rat race, but the problem is capitalism, not your menstrual cycle.
Do you REALLY think your homemaker foremothers weren’t working hard even during their luteal phase? My grandmother was a grown ass adult before she had a washing machine and I assure you, keeping a home was hard ass physical work. My grandparents and parents were bound and determined that I get an education BECAUSE they realized that office work was so much easier. Unless your ancestors were wealthy, they ALWAYS worked very hard.
Women who work extremely hard to be pretty only to complain about not being taken seriously bc ‘ it’s so
Hard to be pretty ‘
Oh STFU. I’m pretty, naturally. It makes life easier so stop acting like it doesn’t. They make women look
Stupid and simple minded.
Mormon trad wives influencers who think their performative homesteading and raising 10+ children is peak feminism. When really the patriarchal and deeply oppressive systems they were born into and brainwashed by their entire lives = they never had any other choice.
Kardashian
Eating disorders
Ignoring women’s childfree choices…’you might change your mind’ or ‘you never know…’
The attitude that motherhood is some sort of higher calling that all women should aspire to and be honored to participate in, and that any women who doesn’t want to be a mother, or doesn’t want to be pregnant, or “takes the easy way out” (by having a C-section or using formula or having medical care at all, etc.) is less than; that pregnancy and motherhood are supposed to be painful and unpleasant and we shouldn’t expect our partners to help or share any of the burden, because it’s just our lot in life to suffer and sacrifice in silence.
That women are a monolith and all have the same stereotypical interests: pink and sparkly things, shopping, beauty, skincare, getting their nails done, fashion, expensive jewelry and handbags and shoes. Women who don’t share these are seen as “unusual” or “tomboys”.
That women should all aspire to the physical “feminine ideals” of being thin (but not too thin) with developed breasts, hips, and butt, long hair, tasteful makeup, little to no body hair, small hands and feet, modest dress, etc. Putting down other women for being “trashy” or “masculine”, etc.
That you should like/enjoy sex a little, but not too much; that you’re mostly just doing it to keep men happy – and therefore should not experience arousal or desire in the absence of a man. That your sexual satisfaction should be derived entirely from vaginal penetration and should not require any additional stimulation.
That certain things are either primarily or entirely a woman’s job in a (heterosexual) relationship: cooking, cleaning, decorating, childcare, the mental load of remembering appointments and birthdays and such.
Many other aspects that boil down to internalized misogyny. That “boys will be boys” and women should keep to themselves and ignore or tolerate them, and/or take care of them and clean up after them.
Honorable Mention: Girl Dinner. This one always bothered me because I feel like it’s making light of the fact that many women are so burnt out by having the sole responsibility of preparing 1 – 3 meals per day for themselves and others that at the first opportunity they just grab a handful of snacks to sustain themselves. I’ve heard from many women that when they were single they ate really simple meals, but once they got into a relationship, there was this unspoken (or sometimes explicit) pressure that every meal should be home-cooked and balanced, with a protein and sides.
Women goddesses.
There is no such thing. “Toxic femininity” is often just internalized sexism that is patriarchal in nature. It’s still toxic masculinity.
Expecting people to make babies like it’s the only option.
Sticking your ass out at work after rolling up your uniform t shirt so it’s even more visible. At work. You’re a cashier. Time and place.
Tomi Lahren, Laura Loomer, and all the trad wife influencers. Internalized misogyny and denial.
Using her gender to screw over a man. Abusive women. “A woman would never do such a thing” or “is not capable of X, Y, Z. To use her femininity and vulnerability to put the man at a disadvantage, falsely accusing him.
I’m going to add to this in a very specific way. BOY MOM SHIT.
When mother in laws side with their sons rather than their daughter in law even though the son is very obviously in the wrong or equally at fault. Mothers should be able to view their children, male or female, with a clear lens. You are not being a protective mother, you are being toxic. You are failing yourself, your son and their relationship because you are incapable of seeing that your son has flaws and is capable of making bad decisions like everyone else on earth. Now, other family members shouldn’t even be involved in most disagreements or arguments, but IF they happen to be, they either need to stay out of it or treat each side with understanding.
Sometimes it doesn’t even have to be an argument between the couple. It could even be something that just happens to upset/bother the mother.
My own mom has blamed my sister in laws for joint marriage decisions. They spent too much money? Automatically the woman’s fault. They eat out too much? Daughter in law should be cooking more. Kid has a cavity? Why isn’t daughter in law brushing their teeth better?!
Somehow, it falls on women. I’ve seen it within my own family and many others.
Toxic shit.
Women who purposely act dumb or less than to be liked, usually by men. Aka the pick me’s.
“Mean Girl” behavior, such as being catty, making backhanded remarks, talking behind people’s backs… Also that whole “I’m not like other girls” mindset.
Women who weaponize their anger, entitlement and tears
I mean anything that aims to tear a another person down
-Judging women for wearing makeup and also in turn judging women for not wearing makeup.
-Other women enforcing and judging for not fitting into societal beauty standards, I have a coworker who dresses more on the casual side for work and gets judged for it even though it’s not an issue for any authority figures at my job
-judging other women for choosing to be childless
-judging other women for choosing to be housewives
-writing off other women’s struggles and emotions that involve a toxic spouse, siding with the man because “girls are crazy”
-mothers of adult women treating them like they have no worth if they aren’t married and catering to their husbands
-expectations of weight and overall appearances that are enforced by other women
Internalized misogyny makes me so sad when I witness it in real time from the women in my life. There’s so much pressure from every angle to be a certain way, act a certain way. You’re either too much or not enough as a woman.
The constant man-hating. The women who in every single situation just suddenly go off and start yelling about how terrible all men are ever, when the situation doesn’t actually have anything to do with it.
If toxic masculinity is men shaming men for being not stereotypically masculine enough, toxic femininity is shaming other women for not being stereotypically feminine enough examples:
Slut shaming other women for not being stereotypically demure and also shaming partners who have a higher sex than they do for wanting to sleep with them, because women aren’t supposed to want sex.
Being miserable as a parent but trying to get child-free women to have babies too, and having children to avoid getting a job.
Being rude to people in public, safe in the knowledge they won’t get assaulted for it,becayse they’re a weak and feeble woman.
Being critical of other women’s looks, for not being feminine enough (or of men, for being too feminine).
Trad wives
Tearing other women down to make themselves feel better about themselves- especially when it comes to appearance.
Toxic femininity usually comes in the form of radical feminism; hate all men type of attitude. Always blaming the average man and crediting the worst attributes of few among to the larger demographic.
Saying things like “All men want is sex.” or just a jaded preconseption of anything a man offers/does/thinks.
Treating motherhood like a competition.
Terfs.
I have witnessed a tendency in both my mother and my sister to be a “good wife.” Basically, she (either one) will be frustrated with her husband and feels like she’s not being heard or listened to. I have witnessed them both, consistently, just sigh and internalize it and say “I’m just going to be a good Christian wife and submit to my husband.”
!!! No !!!
Both of their husbands can be a handful in their own right, but whenever they decide to be a “good wife,” it’s very clear to me that he is carrying on with the assumption that there isn’t a problem. There IS a problem, but she never voices it because she’s convinced what she wants matters less than what he does.
I know my brother-in-law well enough to know that if my sister told him straight up what her frustration was in that moment, he would work with her to accommodate or compromise. He’d go into problem solving mode. But she thinks she has to stand down and let him continue without realizing that she’s internalizing a frustration because that’s what she thinks she must do as a wife.
Communicate, Please
(most) men can handle it and the struggle will be addressed. You are not meant to be his servant, you are his partner. You are not less than him. He does not control you. It drives me crazy watching my mom and sister both just shut themselves up and go into submission mode when their husbands don’t clearly understand how much of an issue it is for her.
The same, taking traditional gender roles/stereotypes to a toxic extreme