I think most people’s perception of “policing the border” is divorced from reality and completely based on vibes. It doesn’t matter what Democrats do, as long as they vibes are that they’re weak on border enforcement… and Im not sure how we change the vibes.
Conservatives don’t “police the border” they just use the rhetoric of immigration to justify their racism.
The people ICE are abducting from immigration courts…people trying to do things the right way, work paperwork and court appearances aren’t a threat to anyone. They aren’t doing anything wrong. They are hardworking people playing by our rules trying to make a better life.
It’s just white conservative xenophobia and cross burning
I think no one has any control or choice as to where they are born and people should have the right to move freely.
I think if one’s country is so great in the first place then they should not only be surprised that people want to move there, they should welcome them.
Democrats can actually enforce the border all they want. But it will never be enough for white nationalist conservatives because what they actually want is for all brown people in America to be removed, regardless of their residency or citizenship status.
It seemed true when he said it and everything that’s happened afterwards confirms that it is true. Yes I understand that inflation was the driving force in the last round of elections, but the point still remains.
I also suspect that we are going to learn something similar when it comes to homelessness and public intoxication. The administration is already making moves to be able to pick people up and put them in treatment centers. We should’ve had blue states doing this with proper guidelines but since we didn’t, we’re going to get a bunch of people in charge of taking care of the homeless, whose preference would be to take care of the homeless.
True. But I think it has so much more truth in Europe than the U.S.
European left wing and even centrist parties are genuinely committing suicide over how committed they are to higher immigration from the third world, even to the point they lie to their voters about their policies on the issue.
I know that he is literally talking about border control, but it also feels like the tolerance paradox. So, you know, either we can police society and cleanse it of fascists, or they’ll cleanse us.
They don’t want to police the borders. They want a white ethnostate.
This government has already created a Department of Remigration. “Remigration” is a neo-Nazi term for an actual-Nazi policy of rounding up and deporting all of the “undesirables.” Do you know why Hitler called the death camps the “final solution?” It’s because it wasn’t the first one. The first one was deportation. First to other countries, but they wouldn’t take them in. Then came the “Madagascar Plan.” That didn’t work either, since France didn’t want to give them Madagascar. For some reason. Only then, at long last, came the death camps.
Our government is on this path right now. Explicitly, openly. They are building the camps, making the offices that will oversee them, appointing people to those offices. They’ve already secured the funding. The camps are being built as we speak. Some of them are already built. They’ve stopped pretending. They don’t even use dogwhistles anymore, it’s all right there. They even sell concentration camp merch, for heavens sake.
Secure borders is not what they want. What they want is ethnic cleansing.
If the public perception of progressives is incompetence in the basic functions of government – and one of those functions is maintaining a secure border and an orderly immigration system – the public will vote them out in favour of someone who promises to fix it. And the group that is most effective at making border security a wedge issue is the right – specifically the segment of the right with fascist tendencies.
This is why Democrats should campaign on border security and an immigration system of fairness.
I hold the current rendition of The Atlantic in contempt and I think it’s a travesty that pro-genocide figure Jeffrey Goldberg is allowed to embed his bias throughout this historic American magazine.
That said, I think Frum was absolutely right and we’re seeing his prophesy realized now, although I see Trump as a figure with concerning authoritarian inclinations and rhetoric rather than an actually present instantiation of fascism.
He’s right. That’s why Harris lost. Trump knew this was his winning issue, which is why he sank the bipartisan bill in Congress. Harris and Biden were very slow to recognize how much this resonated with voters, just as Trump anticipated.
He fundamentally misunderstands the situation. Fascists rally around anti-immigrant messaging because rallying around hating an out-group is instrumental to Fascism. The point is the hatred. What’s actually happening at the border is completely irrelevant.
No. An accurate quote would be something like “Either fascists will lie so they can be in charge of policing the border, or they will fail to excite the idiots and evil people in the next election.”
Conservatives don’t just fret about outsiders entering the country, they also fret about minorities already here. They are also the Other. They don’t want to be around anyone who isn’t like them, it doesn’t matter whether they have citizenship.
And the Republicans never fixed the immigration issues when they were in power, mostly because a lot of donors to the Republican Party exploit immigrant labor. Immigrants are politically useful to the Republicans. They provide cheap labor for the donor class and they provide a safe target for bigotry.
I think conservatives use the border as a wedge issue and that liberals and conservatives can’t agree on what the actual issue is, much less how to solve it. I can’t take conservatives seriously on border issues as long as they keep claiming liberals want an open border or that the US already has an open border. It’s preposterous.
However, the thought is similar to what I’ve been saying about gun control for years. As a gun owner, I believe that if the GOP doesn’t make a good-faith effort on curbing gun violence, eventually gun laws will be made that gun owners hate and they’ll have nobody to blame but themselves.
The sad fact is that the neoliberal/neoconservative oligarchy that runs our government has been perfectly happy with years of unlimited immigration fueled by human trafficking, where migrants are imported not so that they can have a new opportunity for a better life but so that they can be exploited as cheap labor or indentured servants, and drive down the price of labor and drive down wages.
This arrangement has been wonderful for the ruling class to increase profits and increase exploitation, but it has not done any favors to working class Americans nor to the workers and immigrants who are being exploited and trafficked.
Comments
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
?
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
The truth, parties like the AFD and National Rally are gaining traction for a reason.
I think most people’s perception of “policing the border” is divorced from reality and completely based on vibes. It doesn’t matter what Democrats do, as long as they vibes are that they’re weak on border enforcement… and Im not sure how we change the vibes.
Conservatives don’t “police the border” they just use the rhetoric of immigration to justify their racism.
The people ICE are abducting from immigration courts…people trying to do things the right way, work paperwork and court appearances aren’t a threat to anyone. They aren’t doing anything wrong. They are hardworking people playing by our rules trying to make a better life.
It’s just white conservative xenophobia and cross burning
But liberals do police the border.
I think no one has any control or choice as to where they are born and people should have the right to move freely.
I think if one’s country is so great in the first place then they should not only be surprised that people want to move there, they should welcome them.
Democrats can actually enforce the border all they want. But it will never be enough for white nationalist conservatives because what they actually want is for all brown people in America to be removed, regardless of their residency or citizenship status.
It seemed true when he said it and everything that’s happened afterwards confirms that it is true. Yes I understand that inflation was the driving force in the last round of elections, but the point still remains.
I also suspect that we are going to learn something similar when it comes to homelessness and public intoxication. The administration is already making moves to be able to pick people up and put them in treatment centers. We should’ve had blue states doing this with proper guidelines but since we didn’t, we’re going to get a bunch of people in charge of taking care of the homeless, whose preference would be to take care of the homeless.
The “border crisis” is a manufactured crisis. It’s not a real issue, which is why the liberals can’t reason or logic their way out of it.
When you ignore a problem you invite someone else to slove it.
It’s not about about policing the border but the sentiment is correct
True. But I think it has so much more truth in Europe than the U.S.
European left wing and even centrist parties are genuinely committing suicide over how committed they are to higher immigration from the third world, even to the point they lie to their voters about their policies on the issue.
I know that he is literally talking about border control, but it also feels like the tolerance paradox. So, you know, either we can police society and cleanse it of fascists, or they’ll cleanse us.
They don’t want to police the borders. They want a white ethnostate.
This government has already created a Department of Remigration. “Remigration” is a neo-Nazi term for an actual-Nazi policy of rounding up and deporting all of the “undesirables.” Do you know why Hitler called the death camps the “final solution?” It’s because it wasn’t the first one. The first one was deportation. First to other countries, but they wouldn’t take them in. Then came the “Madagascar Plan.” That didn’t work either, since France didn’t want to give them Madagascar. For some reason. Only then, at long last, came the death camps.
Our government is on this path right now. Explicitly, openly. They are building the camps, making the offices that will oversee them, appointing people to those offices. They’ve already secured the funding. The camps are being built as we speak. Some of them are already built. They’ve stopped pretending. They don’t even use dogwhistles anymore, it’s all right there. They even sell concentration camp merch, for heavens sake.
Secure borders is not what they want. What they want is ethnic cleansing.
Strange he finds those to be the two options. Honestly it’s some BS. Immigration is just this brand of fascists scape goat. Guy can get fucked.
Do you have a source for that quote? I can’t find it by searching the exact quote you posted.
David Frum doesn’t like Trump. That is probably the only difference between him and Mike Johnson.
OP is talking about this article from 2019.
Non-Paywall version.
Silly, because the border was policed harshly under all Democratic presidents. The idea of the open border is a fiction.
It’s 100% accurate.
If the public perception of progressives is incompetence in the basic functions of government – and one of those functions is maintaining a secure border and an orderly immigration system – the public will vote them out in favour of someone who promises to fix it. And the group that is most effective at making border security a wedge issue is the right – specifically the segment of the right with fascist tendencies.
This is why Democrats should campaign on border security and an immigration system of fairness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
It’s worse. Either we win, or a shit ton of people will stop existing.
Sounds like we should be policing the fascists, then.
I hold the current rendition of The Atlantic in contempt and I think it’s a travesty that pro-genocide figure Jeffrey Goldberg is allowed to embed his bias throughout this historic American magazine.
That said, I think Frum was absolutely right and we’re seeing his prophesy realized now, although I see Trump as a figure with concerning authoritarian inclinations and rhetoric rather than an actually present instantiation of fascism.
He’s right. That’s why Harris lost. Trump knew this was his winning issue, which is why he sank the bipartisan bill in Congress. Harris and Biden were very slow to recognize how much this resonated with voters, just as Trump anticipated.
He fundamentally misunderstands the situation. Fascists rally around anti-immigrant messaging because rallying around hating an out-group is instrumental to Fascism. The point is the hatred. What’s actually happening at the border is completely irrelevant.
He’s an idiot.
I think it’s something worth considering.
No. An accurate quote would be something like “Either fascists will lie so they can be in charge of policing the border, or they will fail to excite the idiots and evil people in the next election.”
Whether or not this is true, if most people just turned off their television, they wouldn’t care about the “border crisis”.
Conservatives don’t just fret about outsiders entering the country, they also fret about minorities already here. They are also the Other. They don’t want to be around anyone who isn’t like them, it doesn’t matter whether they have citizenship.
And the Republicans never fixed the immigration issues when they were in power, mostly because a lot of donors to the Republican Party exploit immigrant labor. Immigrants are politically useful to the Republicans. They provide cheap labor for the donor class and they provide a safe target for bigotry.
“Either we do the stupid and irrational policy, or our enemies will do it.”
That’s basically his position.
I think conservatives use the border as a wedge issue and that liberals and conservatives can’t agree on what the actual issue is, much less how to solve it. I can’t take conservatives seriously on border issues as long as they keep claiming liberals want an open border or that the US already has an open border. It’s preposterous.
However, the thought is similar to what I’ve been saying about gun control for years. As a gun owner, I believe that if the GOP doesn’t make a good-faith effort on curbing gun violence, eventually gun laws will be made that gun owners hate and they’ll have nobody to blame but themselves.
Liberals police the border, facists manufacture refugee crises
Liberals were policing the border at the same level the first fascist administration did.
So I don’t know what we are supposed to take away from that soundbyte.
That sounds like a threat, I suggest he mind his own business.
The sad fact is that the neoliberal/neoconservative oligarchy that runs our government has been perfectly happy with years of unlimited immigration fueled by human trafficking, where migrants are imported not so that they can have a new opportunity for a better life but so that they can be exploited as cheap labor or indentured servants, and drive down the price of labor and drive down wages.
This arrangement has been wonderful for the ruling class to increase profits and increase exploitation, but it has not done any favors to working class Americans nor to the workers and immigrants who are being exploited and trafficked.
In the USA liberals tried with conservatives. They drew up a good, fair bill. It was conservatives who killed it on trumps orders.