Liberalism is a political philosophy. If you support a political system that isn’t liberalism but is on the left of the political system. Then you are a leftist.
50% of the time its just word choice, most US leftists are democratic socialists who are leftists through the lens of a liberal society (things like democracy, civil liberties, limited government, etc). So we have liberal social democrats and leftist democratic socialists who probably 80% agree on almost everything
broadly speaking, conservatives think societal hierarchies are important for law and order and stabili5ty and should be enforced to some degree, liberals think hierarchies should be open and accessible for people to climb, and leftists want to remove the hierarchal structure altogether (until they are in charge and suddenly a different sort of hierarchy has formed but thats neither here nor there)
For me, a Liberal is any standard Democrat to Bernie level Social Democracy supporter. They typically want to work within the system for reforms.
For me, a Leftist is another way of saying Far Left which includes Communists and Socialists and maybe others that I can’t think of off the type of my head. They typically want some kind of revolution for wholesale systemic change.
A (social) liberalism is someone that remains supportive of capitalism without heavy reforms. Anything more to the left than liberalism is what I call “leftist”, and it ranges from Social Democrats, to Marxists, to Anarchists. Liberalism, combined with the Christian Democracy, is simply the centre ideology of the world, with American liberalism being more leftleaning in thought and neoliberalism/European liberalism being more rightleaning.
Liberals favor democratic institutions and regulated but mostly capitalistic markets. Progressives and neoliberals are both Liberals, with the former preferring more regulation of a capitalist economy and the latter preferring less.
Leftists tend to be ideologically opposed to one or both of democracy and private markets. For example, democratic socialists would be pro-democracy, but opposed to non-state sponsored markets. A stalinist or maoist would be opposed to both democratic institutions and markets, in favor of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Anarchists would be opposed to formalized institutions of any kind.
This is a bit of an oversimplification, and there are continuum between these different ideologies, but I expect you’re asking for a Reddit post, not a dissertation.
Liberals like institutions and see them as paths to enact desired outcomes, “medicare public option”, “Atlanticism/NATO” and “higher participation in party politics”. Leftists distrust institutions and want them changed or replaced, “defund the police”, and “abolish ice” and “medicare for all” come to mind.
For the purposes of this question, Liberalism is the philosophy of capitalism, while leftism is an umbrella term for the philosophies that oppose capitalism (socialism, communism, anarchism, syndicalism, etc.)
They meant the same thing as I was becoming politically aware in the 90s, so nowadays I just keep track of how others are using it so I can copy that & minimize confusion.
As near as I can tell:
Leftist = of a politically left/progressive bent, starting from the left border of center-left liberalism and running all the way to militantly pangender communist ecoterror people’s resistance amy.
Liberal = Neoliberal, broadly socially & economically similar to Classical Liberal but more friendly to government programs and services; less all-or-nothing on free markets. On foreign policy, generally soft interventionist, always multilateral.
Classical Liberal = Libertarian, at least domestically; opinions on foreign policy/military may range from isolationist to “the same thing we do every night, Pinky…” -levels of muscular intervention.
^(As you may have noticed, ↑these aren’t always mutually exclusive, and individual positions can be adopted a la carte without it meaning that all your other beliefs must align with that segment, too.)
We on the left are very critical of power structures and hierarchies- who has power, how is power distributed, how is power used, etc.
That’s why we tend to be anti-capitalist- we see capitalism as the primary engine of harmful power structures in modern society. But it’s not that we’re only opposed to capitalism, or even necessarily opposed to capitalism.
Liberals are much less critical of power structures and much more concerned with individual liberty and freedom. They don’t make the same connection (at least to the same extent) between power and liberty.
Liberals range from social democrats to neoliberals. Leftists are anyone to the left of socdems who isn’t an authoritarian. An authoritarian leftist is a tankie.
A liberal must actually hold to liberal values such as representative government, inherent inalienable human rights, a system of law that treats individuals equally, and respects the right for people to have some form of property.
This last point is often where liberals and leftists diverge, and liberals have an open view of property rights and many leftist ideologies have a much more closed view on what exactly anyone should be able to own (and how property is even defined).
Liberals will support private ownership of businesses, the means of production, the economy, etc. Leftists (generally) do not support this. They want some form of distributed ownership/control. This can mean full communism, socialism, or even something like market socialism (like requiring all businesses to be co-ops or have a democratic constitution for decision-making).
Leftism (progressivism) is a desire to make changes for the sake of making society more egalitarian and less hierarchical. This is the opposite of conservatism (rightism) which is a desire to maintain or implement social hierarchies with disregard for egalitarianism. These have been the definitions of these words since their creation in the French Revolutionary time period.
If you, in your land of make believe, imagine yourself to be more patriotic than everyone else, and declare your enemies to be “leftists” and often use phrases like “stop right there, leftist!” as you apprehend a criminal in this obvious land of make believe, you are in fact an idiot. The people watching you embarrass yourself in this way are liberals. That is the difference. We try and get everyone to watch. But most are idiots.
Edit: to clarify, no one is calling themselves a leftist. It is a term made up by idiots and I can’t believe I need to elaborate on that phenomenon.
The more read myself back this comment the more I laugh. HALT,LEFTIST SCUM!
Nearly all leftists are liberals. Leftists choose this extra special label because they are edgy third way idiots who like to amuse themselves by giving themselves special titles so people assume they are flirting with Marxism. It’s basically a choice to make yourself politically irrelevant in exchange for mostly negative attention.
It’s actually disingenuous to associate these people with Marxism btw because almost none of them have read Marx. Most watch a couple completely idiotic YouTube videos and choose fun labels because they have nothing better to do.
I personally believe those two terms operate on separate axis. A person can be both a liberal and a leftist, a liberal but not a leftist, a leftists but not a liberal, or neither a liberal nor a leftist.
Liberals are people who believe in democracy and individual rights. Leftists are people who believe society should be more egalitarian than the status quo at the very least and as egalitarian as possible at the extreme.
People who try to put these two terms on the same spectrum seem to think the dividing line has something to do with capitalism, liberals being more in favor and leftists being more opposed. To be the dividing line is somewhere between social democrats and democratic socialists. The former willing to allow some capitalism to exist but generally more skeptical of markets and preferring the public sphere when possible, the later believing that if Capitalism is allowed to exist in any form it will eventually subsume the system.
I don’t differentiate. Although it’s become more popular to do that today, both labels have various definitions, while always serving the interests of the left. So if you were to tell me that someone is a liberal, I’d only know for certain that they’re not a conservative and I’d have to ask “what kind of liberal?” “What kind of leftist?”
In as succinct as I can say this while replying in good faith:
From where I stand ideologically, anyone who agrees about removing the profit motives for a myriad of services and commodities necessary to sustain human life and has a disfavorable view on individuals and entities that are violating articles in the 1948 United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (even if it is their own government) tend to be more left of scale.
Liberals are on the spectrum but tend to be more accepting of entities and systems that for one reason or another, fail to uphold or refuse to recognize various rights that every member of the human species is party to, especially per Article III
> Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person
“Security of person” is (at least in my interpretation) the stance and expectation that no matter where/when they were born or what they’ve done, humans should be free from violence, torture, and other forms of cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment. People and entities that violate these rights should be condemned, obstructed from doing so, and penalized when they do.
The extent to which you believe this and what actions you endorse/condone within and outside the electoral system determines where you fall on the “liberal-leftist” spectrum.
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Liberalism is a political philosophy. If you support a political system that isn’t liberalism but is on the left of the political system. Then you are a leftist.
A liberal is somehow who is liberal, a leftist is someone on the left.
They’re clearly defined terms, you can go look them up. The differences are pretty vast.
50% of the time its just word choice, most US leftists are democratic socialists who are leftists through the lens of a liberal society (things like democracy, civil liberties, limited government, etc). So we have liberal social democrats and leftist democratic socialists who probably 80% agree on almost everything
broadly speaking, conservatives think societal hierarchies are important for law and order and stabili5ty and should be enforced to some degree, liberals think hierarchies should be open and accessible for people to climb, and leftists want to remove the hierarchal structure altogether (until they are in charge and suddenly a different sort of hierarchy has formed but thats neither here nor there)
For me, a Liberal is any standard Democrat to Bernie level Social Democracy supporter. They typically want to work within the system for reforms.
For me, a Leftist is another way of saying Far Left which includes Communists and Socialists and maybe others that I can’t think of off the type of my head. They typically want some kind of revolution for wholesale systemic change.
Leftists want to tear down or dismantle Capitalism.
A leftist is anyone who is on the left. A liberal is a specific type of leftist who believes in regulated captitalism and social reform.
Class consciousness.
A (social) liberalism is someone that remains supportive of capitalism without heavy reforms. Anything more to the left than liberalism is what I call “leftist”, and it ranges from Social Democrats, to Marxists, to Anarchists. Liberalism, combined with the Christian Democracy, is simply the centre ideology of the world, with American liberalism being more leftleaning in thought and neoliberalism/European liberalism being more rightleaning.
Where do Soc Dems fit?
Liberals favor democratic institutions and regulated but mostly capitalistic markets. Progressives and neoliberals are both Liberals, with the former preferring more regulation of a capitalist economy and the latter preferring less.
Leftists tend to be ideologically opposed to one or both of democracy and private markets. For example, democratic socialists would be pro-democracy, but opposed to non-state sponsored markets. A stalinist or maoist would be opposed to both democratic institutions and markets, in favor of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Anarchists would be opposed to formalized institutions of any kind.
This is a bit of an oversimplification, and there are continuum between these different ideologies, but I expect you’re asking for a Reddit post, not a dissertation.
One is pro capitalism personal freedom and “liberal”. One is insane.
Liberals like institutions and see them as paths to enact desired outcomes, “medicare public option”, “Atlanticism/NATO” and “higher participation in party politics”. Leftists distrust institutions and want them changed or replaced, “defund the police”, and “abolish ice” and “medicare for all” come to mind.
For the purposes of this question, Liberalism is the philosophy of capitalism, while leftism is an umbrella term for the philosophies that oppose capitalism (socialism, communism, anarchism, syndicalism, etc.)
Liberals adhere to liberal ideology (Liberalism), while leftists subscribe to other collectivist ideologies.
They meant the same thing as I was becoming politically aware in the 90s, so nowadays I just keep track of how others are using it so I can copy that & minimize confusion.
As near as I can tell:
Leftist = of a politically left/progressive bent, starting from the left border of center-left liberalism and running all the way to militantly pangender communist ecoterror people’s resistance amy.
Liberal = Neoliberal, broadly socially & economically similar to Classical Liberal but more friendly to government programs and services; less all-or-nothing on free markets. On foreign policy, generally soft interventionist, always multilateral.
Classical Liberal = Libertarian, at least domestically; opinions on foreign policy/military may range from isolationist to “the same thing we do every night, Pinky…” -levels of muscular intervention.
^(As you may have noticed, ↑these aren’t always mutually exclusive, and individual positions can be adopted a la carte without it meaning that all your other beliefs must align with that segment, too.)
Liberals:
Leftist:
Leftists generally hate liberals more than Fascists. Its why there is a weird alliance between the Green Party and the MAGA movement.
We on the left are very critical of power structures and hierarchies- who has power, how is power distributed, how is power used, etc.
That’s why we tend to be anti-capitalist- we see capitalism as the primary engine of harmful power structures in modern society. But it’s not that we’re only opposed to capitalism, or even necessarily opposed to capitalism.
Liberals are much less critical of power structures and much more concerned with individual liberty and freedom. They don’t make the same connection (at least to the same extent) between power and liberty.
Liberals range from social democrats to neoliberals. Leftists are anyone to the left of socdems who isn’t an authoritarian. An authoritarian leftist is a tankie.
That’s how I use them as labels anyway.
A liberal must actually hold to liberal values such as representative government, inherent inalienable human rights, a system of law that treats individuals equally, and respects the right for people to have some form of property.
This last point is often where liberals and leftists diverge, and liberals have an open view of property rights and many leftist ideologies have a much more closed view on what exactly anyone should be able to own (and how property is even defined).
Liberals will support private ownership of businesses, the means of production, the economy, etc. Leftists (generally) do not support this. They want some form of distributed ownership/control. This can mean full communism, socialism, or even something like market socialism (like requiring all businesses to be co-ops or have a democratic constitution for decision-making).
One sniff’s their farts and one is mad no one else sniff’s their farts.
Personally I’m in the ‘smell my own farts camp’. I don’t think it’s necessary for anyone else to.
Liberals usually vote for Democrats.
Leftists rarely vote, when they do it’s mostly for Democrats, and they whine on the internet about “abolishing capitalism.”
Liberals think the system is broken and must be fixed. Leftists recognise that the system is working exactly as intended, and must be destroyed.
Leftism (progressivism) is a desire to make changes for the sake of making society more egalitarian and less hierarchical. This is the opposite of conservatism (rightism) which is a desire to maintain or implement social hierarchies with disregard for egalitarianism. These have been the definitions of these words since their creation in the French Revolutionary time period.
Liberalism is the political ideology based on individual rights and liberal democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
You can be both of these things at the same time. Social democracy is an ideology that is simultaneously liberal and leftist, for example.
If you, in your land of make believe, imagine yourself to be more patriotic than everyone else, and declare your enemies to be “leftists” and often use phrases like “stop right there, leftist!” as you apprehend a criminal in this obvious land of make believe, you are in fact an idiot. The people watching you embarrass yourself in this way are liberals. That is the difference. We try and get everyone to watch. But most are idiots.
Edit: to clarify, no one is calling themselves a leftist. It is a term made up by idiots and I can’t believe I need to elaborate on that phenomenon.
The more read myself back this comment the more I laugh. HALT,LEFTIST SCUM!
Nearly all leftists are liberals. Leftists choose this extra special label because they are edgy third way idiots who like to amuse themselves by giving themselves special titles so people assume they are flirting with Marxism. It’s basically a choice to make yourself politically irrelevant in exchange for mostly negative attention.
It’s actually disingenuous to associate these people with Marxism btw because almost none of them have read Marx. Most watch a couple completely idiotic YouTube videos and choose fun labels because they have nothing better to do.
This subject always winds up sounding like that scene in ‘Monty Python and the Holy Grail’ with the peasants arguing about their political system.
Practicality.
I find this tedious. Seriously, stop looking for division . We all hate trump Republicans are evil. If you agree with that you agree with me.
At the very core of it, a leftist wants equality for all, while a liberal wants freedom for all
I personally believe those two terms operate on separate axis. A person can be both a liberal and a leftist, a liberal but not a leftist, a leftists but not a liberal, or neither a liberal nor a leftist.
Liberals are people who believe in democracy and individual rights. Leftists are people who believe society should be more egalitarian than the status quo at the very least and as egalitarian as possible at the extreme.
People who try to put these two terms on the same spectrum seem to think the dividing line has something to do with capitalism, liberals being more in favor and leftists being more opposed. To be the dividing line is somewhere between social democrats and democratic socialists. The former willing to allow some capitalism to exist but generally more skeptical of markets and preferring the public sphere when possible, the later believing that if Capitalism is allowed to exist in any form it will eventually subsume the system.
I don’t differentiate. Although it’s become more popular to do that today, both labels have various definitions, while always serving the interests of the left. So if you were to tell me that someone is a liberal, I’d only know for certain that they’re not a conservative and I’d have to ask “what kind of liberal?” “What kind of leftist?”
In as succinct as I can say this while replying in good faith:
From where I stand ideologically, anyone who agrees about removing the profit motives for a myriad of services and commodities necessary to sustain human life and has a disfavorable view on individuals and entities that are violating articles in the 1948 United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (even if it is their own government) tend to be more left of scale.
Liberals are on the spectrum but tend to be more accepting of entities and systems that for one reason or another, fail to uphold or refuse to recognize various rights that every member of the human species is party to, especially per Article III
> Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person
“Security of person” is (at least in my interpretation) the stance and expectation that no matter where/when they were born or what they’ve done, humans should be free from violence, torture, and other forms of cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment. People and entities that violate these rights should be condemned, obstructed from doing so, and penalized when they do.
The extent to which you believe this and what actions you endorse/condone within and outside the electoral system determines where you fall on the “liberal-leftist” spectrum.