Sojourner Truth delivered a now-famous speech at the Women’s Rights Convention in 1851. A quote from the speech, Ain’t I A Woman reads “That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud-puddles, or gives me any best place! And ain’t I a woman?”
A black woman was in this sub yesterday, talking about her experiences and how she was tired of being called “strong” and “powerful”. And some of the comments on this sub were honestly quite shocking. I wanted to break down some of the narratives I was seeing, and really implore white women to do better going forward.
Everyone’s journey is different.
I have south-asian heritage. In our culture, parents put a huge focus on education. I was lucky enough to have parents who pushed me to do a STEM degree at an Ivy League university. I had an amazing financially stable job at 22. But my mum never cared for me getting dressed up or wearing makeup. As a result, my 20s was me reclaiming my feminine side. If I’m obsessed with handbags and makeup, its because I was denied it for so long.
I understand that for a lot of people they might have the opposite experience. Maybe their parents told them that they could never do an engineering degree, because they’re a girl. Maybe they were told to only focus on how they look, because they’re a girl. Those people might be rejecting the things I’m embracing. And that’s completely okay. Our ideas of feminism can look completely different and still be completely valid.
Likewise, black women in America have a long history of being masculinized. The poster from yesterday was articulating that she was tired of essentially being stereotyped. That she was naturally a very soft and gentle woman and she just wishes people could see her as she was. I know some women would love to be called strong and powerful. But others, for good reason, don’t. Our histories are different and understanding context is an important skill in life.
It’s not a big deal.
I saw a lot comments essentially saying this. And really? Because I see a lot of posts in this sub about things that I personally consider trivial. Like a guy not moving out of the way on the sidewalk for example. Let me tell you, all the comments are hyping up the OP. What do I do when I see those posts? I say nothing. Because sometimes people just want to be heard. And after a while, when I think about, I realize that it is in fact annoying that men don’t want to move out of your way on a sidewalk.
Women should unionize.
I saw this too. That women of color should stop talking about their experiences of racism because it’s not convenient to the cause of feminism. Firstly, we can fight both racism and sexism. We’re women after all. Secondly, we’re human and we shouldn’t have to condense our experiences into two-dimensional stories. No one’s experiences should be discounted.
And on a side note, may I just remind people, that majority of white women voted for Trump. Less than 30 percent of women of color voted for him. We’re already unionized. White women, you should really be taking notes from us and unionizing yourselves.
Thank you to the women who did speak up.
I know that the title of the post is inflammatory but that’s because I wanted it to get some attention. But I did see many many white women in the comments trying their best to educate their sisters. If you were one of them thank you, I genuinely appreciate it.
u/sunsista_ I hear you and I see you.
Comments
Oh my god I remember reading that poem in junior high and in retrospect I’m surprised it was allowed in a Texas school textbook.
I love your sidewalk analogy. If you ask most WOC they’ll tell you that they have the same issue with white women not moving out of the way.
Thank you
Not even trying to be funny but we may need our own sub
They made a Bachelor POC sub because some of the white women were wildin that much
💯
Opression is a web. We cannot “solve” sexism without addressing racism, ableism, classism, transphobia, etc. white women telling women of color to stop talking about racism so we can help them is doing themselves a disservice. Thank you for this post
If you had an opposite experience but are now living in and surrounded by a culture that approves of the things you’re embracing now, you’ll still be socially rewarded for them if they meet gender expectations.
That’s the problem with being a woman in certain cultures. You’re still subject to social forces regardless of your personal feelings or relationship with them. Women who aren’t conventionally attractive are still ignored even if they embrace hyper femininity. Conventionally attractive women score the baseline points of deserving to exist, but still suffer the negatives of being hounded by unwanted attention. Any “type” of woman can suffer sexual violence.
No, we are not okay
The patriarchy tells us that as long as we are obedient to our masters, we will get everything that black, Asian and trans women don’t get.
They emphasize that we are white but not that we are women who are abused just a little later and in a different way.
Although I try to be a girls girl, it was always other white women who betrayed me in the end and I don’t really want to make friends with others because in the end it was always a power struggle to see who was better with men, I noticed this especially when I lost 25 kilos.
My mother has a black girlfriend and she is one of the nicest persons I know and I wouldn’t want to miss her.
I did not participate in that thread, but I did want to comment that you should look up the actual speech Sojourner Truth made. The version most people know was published 12 years after she gave it and heavily adjusted by a white woman to make her more palatable to white people.
https://www.thesojournertruthproject.com/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=822015968&gclid=Cj0KCQjwucDBBhDxARIsANqFdr2FnSL_HwK4hUin_XhrUtTKx9pgP3-z4B1BZtEoMQ3VIOw06uK43ccaAoccEALw_wcB
The irony of this post is that Sojourner’s speech was revised and rewritten by a white woman to sound like she spoke with a southern dialect when she actually spoke English very formally and her first language was Dutch, and also that the mainly white women at the event did not want her to speak because they thought abolition and women’s rights were separate causes.
As a white woman, yeah we often do the same thing as white men do. Which essentially boils down to “if it doesn’t happen to me, it’s not a REAL problem” and then go “here let me fix it for you” (which is never helpful and often infantilizing/condescending). Although we have also been oppressed by the patriarchy, we have also benefited from our proximity to power (aka white men), so we haven’t experienced the full frontal assault of the combination of racism and misogyny. I don’t remember seeing the post you’re talking about but I’ve seen hundreds like it, and it’s infuriating.
I think a lot of white women either don’t know much about the roots of feminism or how we can’t have feminism that actually moves the needle if that feminism isn’t intersectional. I think a lot of white women also read/consume feminist media that is mostly written by other white women. I think a lot of white women don’t want to do the internal work to break down their own implicit biases/racism. Like I tell men, it’s on them to prove that it’s “not all men” (we don’t get to bestow that for them) for us white women we need to prove that it’s “not all white women” by doing the work to decolonize ourselves.
I am white and strongly support every woman of every color speaking out about whatever she would like to speak out about. I am particularly supportive of black women in America being heard and respected and cared for, not because I have a white savior complex, but because as a fellow American woman I have learned and witnessed firsthand just how under-heard, under-respected, and under-cared for black women in America have been, and continue to be. I appreciate fairness and simply wish everyone were treated equally.
Women want men to call out men on sexism. I think us white women need to call each other out on racism. To me, there’s a fine line between complimenting how someone deals with an experience with racism versus going off in a complimentary manner that goes into “othering” a person. It reminds me of someone being impressed with how I handle someone treating me poorly because I am disabled versus talking about how I am such an inspiration because I have difficulties because of my disability. People do the best they can with what they’ve got. Sure, some people’s best is better than other people’s.
But TBH, it bothers me and many others with disabilities for people to call us inspiration. We’re living our lives as best we can. Do you think Grandpa is an inspiration for changing what he eats because he had a heart attack and now goes to the doctor more and still loves to garden?
Stop othering people. We all are just people doing the best we can with what we’ve got.
Thank you for speaking up. I didn’t see the original post but I understood immediately why she wouldn’t want to be called strong or whatever. I’m also black and that’s one of those traits that sound like it should be positive but is put on us if we like it or not and allows others to never check in on us or acknowledge when we struggle because we’re “strong” and can suffer indefinitely.
Thanks for discussing this. 2X does not feel like a comfortable space for PoC. The fetishization of women of color is definitely in 2X and perpetuated by white women.
I mean, I’m not okay. Don’t know if I have anything to teach anyone though. My experiences aren’t all that original. I will 100% wield my privilege to defend everyone else though.
But, a guy not moving out of the way on the sidewalk is not trivial and it is a big deal. You’re claiming to want union but dismissing the things like that.
The Right To Sex is a book I’m currently reading about toxic white feminism.
I recommend for all white women to read if you’re truly interested in actual feminism. It is eye-opening.
I call out racism from white people when I see it. It’s frustrating me that people don’t appreciate how harmful perpetuating stereotypes and the powerful stuff is. People need to listen a whole lot more and talk a lot less and realise their views aren’t automatically of any note. A lot of white people struggle with this as it’s ingrained in us that our way of thinking is somehow the ‘right’ one. The way power and gender and race plays out is really insidious and we all need to be more mindful of how we relate to people.
Boy moms 😭
Women of color are fighting a multi front war of raceism and misogyny, but white women want us to stop discussing the nuance of the experiences that both provide, as to not upset the apple cart, further insulating and protecting them, while the experience of racism still weighs down.
It’s insulting, cruel, and diminishing. Why exactly would people run to join community wherein ‘allies’ have to be convinced into their humanity?
I constantly asked on that post: if a man reacted the same as they were OP, to their perspectives, would they be offered as much grace? And nobody critiquing OPs insight would directly answer that question.
No, we aren’t ok. Especially white women in the USA. We were told we could do and be anything, as long as we stayed in our lane… but that meant competing against each other and in-fighting because the lane meant finding a man, in reality…
And we were told slavery, racism, feminism, and women’s rights, were all issues for history and that we were living in the better times. But the truth is, we were so busy being distracted with what we had to realize what was being taken from us…. and what others didn’t have to begin with. We were sabotaged by our mothers and fathers, all while developing an undeserved superiority complex built to hide a MASSIVE inferiority complex.
We aren’t ok…. but we can be.
Crabs in a bucket mentality
Wait, someone complained about being stereotyped and now there’s a question about the behavior of white women…this stereotyping white women.
How about we all stop stereotyping?
The smallest minority is the individual.
I don’t need to unionize, because that assumes a similar fight for a group of people – yet we are all individuals. So we unionize and act as one and then get mad at those who won’t join the movement, because their goals / needs are different – thereby not respecting their individuality.
Stop stereotyping women (and men, and gays, and Jews, and well any “group”). My characteristics are not my identity. While I recognize some do deeply identify with their “group”, don’t expect or be mad at those who don’t want to be only identified by their “groups”.
I appreciate you talking about this. This sub has a serious problem with white feminism.
I’m a white woman and I gotta say I feel utterly betrayed by how many white women voted for Trump and have the opinions they have.
I despise the infantilization I experience on a regular basis. Though I’ve certainly used that stereotype when, for example, standing up for someone—people kinda calm down (I think they temper their behavior to appease/coddle me).
I wish that all -isms were gone and people were just treated according to who they are individually. The world would be such a better place.
And thanks for recommending r/blackladies. Sounds like a good place to lurk & learn. Everyone can always learn more. If anyone has any other sub suggestions, please fire away!
I didn’t even open up that post cause I knew the white women would be in here wildin the fuck out and after hearing their whining about Nazi Nick in the Handmaids Tale the last week I’m over their victim nonsense for a while. I’m not shocked they were acting a fool.
White women are not okay. We are forever to be used as political capital. Everything, you see, is a “threat” to us, and this “threat” (that doesn’t actually exist) is used to oppress, and when they’re done, they oppress us. Men of colour, women of colour, and now trans women. We (and our children) are nothing but political capital. Only those of us willing to step on others can function within this system.
Very well said indeed. To address one of the -ism’s means not to simply ignore the others. Regardless of who anyone is, having the maturity to see past the superficial and to stand united creates a path, maybe not to utopia, but at least to a better future for all.
The biggest revelation of my 30s was learning about white feminism and the ways I was flamingly, ignorantly practicing it with my full chest while thinking I was an ally. It was extremely upsetting, personally, and embarrassing I went that long without seeing it myself but needing other people to point it out to me.
And since then, it’s strained things between me and other white feminists in my life because once you see it, it’s so painfully obvious in so many places. I check people regularly about it.
Nothing has ever felt worse to me than realizing I was part of the problem – which isn’t anywhere near as bad as what others suffer as a result, obviously, but that personal pain really helped the lesson stick. I monitor myself for other biases even more virulently than I did before, and I’ve used that education to spot where I have ableism and transphobia and internalized homophobia etc.
Because we all inherited this sick culture with these biases – we’re all gonna have some to root out.
But no, white women are not okay. To the point I no longer have that sense of lowkey assuming safety with other white women, because I’ve seen how fast they turn when I speak up against shit. Even though I always believed WOC when they spoke of their experiences, it definitely hits different when you’re the target.
There is no sisterhood if it’s exclusive membership.
I missed it but I appreciate you speaking up and bringing attention to this issue, because yeah, it’s a pretty big blindspot for a lot of white women who have made whiteness part of their identity. (A white woman once pointed out to me that the fact that I don’t think of my whiteness as part of my identity is its own privilege, because people aren’t reminding me about my race all day long.)
A few short months ago, someone shared a tiktok on the 4b* sub of a Black woman asking white women to please have each other’s and Black women’s backs–this was clearly a heartfelt appeal to us, and some of the white women still flipped out with the dumbest, most defensive shit.
So, ah, no, unfortunately we are not ok. We have a LOT of work to do.
*It might have been the r/feministactually sub, sorry, can’t remember
This is why intersectional feminism is so important! If you’re ignoring the combination of sex + race/sexuality/gender/disability etc, then you’re intentionally ignoring the concerns of many women!
And yeah, as a white woman, I see that shit all the time! And when I call it out, they all clutch their Stanley cups to their chest and give me the shocked/offended look that I dare not center their experience! If it’s that frustrating for me, I can’t even imagine how infuriating it must be for people in marginalized communities!
Based and true
The majority of white women *who voted* voted for Trump. IT’s still disgusting to me, but it’s an important distinction, and one the GOP wants us to be confused about. If you include all the women who didn’t vote, it’s only 34% of white women who voted for Trump. And yes, staying home can be its own form of entitlement, but sometimes it is also poverty, or ignorance, or exhaustion.
If women stuck together we would be unstoppable in this nation. Man have succeeded in subdividing us for generations. We MUST get together and fight for sane, productive governmental priorities.
I really really dislike this white women/black woman thing. Being told I can’t be supportive because I’m white and don’t know racism. That I am not an ally because white. That I haven’t been oppressed because white. There’s so much condescension towards white woman that it turns my stomach sometimes, I’ve seen suggestions that mention needing a safe space from white women. How is there ever going to any cohesive sisterhood if there’s so much focus on race?
I’m actually mixed heritage of Native American and white, and it really makes me grit my teeth..I HAVE been targeted because I’m a “mutt”, been told I’m not a real human.. that one still makes me wonder even now when I think about it. I have been spit on, been hit, kicked and beaten with sticks because I wasn’t “pure white” I spent some time in a religious school, and I was one out of two kids that didn’t have pale skin. The other girl left, I think she moved.. I had no friends. The other girls in my grade formed a club. I was the only one not invited, because they didn’t let “dirty animals in, stupid halfbreeds”. I had so much damage done to me from the bullying that at almost 50, it still affects me. The few years I went to public schools, I was one of three white kids. And I had more fun and more friends at the public schools..sure I was still bullied..but it was less dehumanizing and hateful. And I am so so tired of being told to sit down and shut up, that what I say doesn’t matter because I haven’t experienced effects of racism.
I’m sure there are people in here that will think the same thing.. I expect it. I’m tired of it. Treat me with respect, kindness, and dignity and I will do the same. Not because of your skin colour, but because this world is a fucking shitty ass place, and a good majority of humankind suck and having community can help keep the filth and the muck away.
Latina here and I’m fucking tired of being looked up to as an example of strength.
I want a hug and to have a good cry.