With Pope Francis’s death (RIP), I did some research and it seems like all the possible candidates are ages 60-75. Why are they all so old? Why not find a younger pope who can be the pope longer? Like someone who is around 40. Is it politics?
With Pope Francis’s death (RIP), I did some research and it seems like all the possible candidates are ages 60-75. Why are they all so old? Why not find a younger pope who can be the pope longer? Like someone who is around 40. Is it politics?
Comments
Years = experience. And experience = votes.
The same issue with Popes exists for Presidents.
Most people who are in politics, or the church, don’t have the necessary experience in their 40s to be considered really solid candidates.
politics? sorta. specifically, internal church politics
the list is basically limited to the senior members of the church who are voting, which naturally requires climbing the ladder of the hierarchy to get into a position to be a cardinal.
ergo, the only peopel who can become pope are people who’ve dedicated a huge proportion of thier life to the Chruch.
This is how most pinnacle positions in massive organizations work. Especially one that isn’t broadly democratic. You work your way up in an organizations. These promotions take years or decades to achieve. By the time you are ranked high enough to be considered for pope, and among the most distinguished people at this rank, you’re probably pretty old.
Takes a long time to get to the position to even be eligible.
You have to be a Cardinal, and it usually takes a long time to work up to Cardinal. The youngest Cardinal ever was 44.
I wonder this about US politicians
Takes a long time be eligible
The Church shies away from a 40 year old BECAUSE they would be pope for a long time. A 45 year old could be pope for 40 years! That’s too much power, so they tend to prefer older popes who serve 10-15 years.
Because you first have to become a priest and then a Bishop and then a Cardinal and then wait for the current Pope to die.
All of that takes a long time.
If they chose a young person who turns out to be bad – however you define “bad” – you might have a bad pope for decades. I have no idea how they actually choose this stuff, but if a very powerful post has to also be a lifelong appointment, it’s such a gamble that a track record is worth more than whatever bumper stickers someone has on their car in their 20s
Because popes have been selected between the collegium of the cardinals from the end of the XIV century, and today it takes a lot of time and experience inside the Church’s ranks to be appointed as one (unlike in the XVII and XVIII centuries when a 10 years old and a 8 years old respectively kids could be made Cardinal). Seniority in age means experience in the Church, which is crucial for the spiritual leader of billions of people, a Head of State and the leader of a 2000 y.o. organisation.
So the statue of limitation is already passed
They want popes who are old but also relatively healthy. The pope who lived for two months upset the church because they had to do two expensive pope funerals within a year.
I assume it’s because they’re closer to death which means closer to god.
Popes serve for life, the other cardinals want to have a chance at the position too so they don’t elect someone who’ll sit on the Holy See for 40 years. (The cynical answer)
Experience is important to become Pope as well as it’s one of the most recognized and respected positions in the world.
It’s intentional given that there is no transition of power until death (apart from Benedict, anyways). Older popes add a de facto term limit.
Yes, there should probably be a better system in this era where people are living longer than ever before and dementia is more of a concern.
It’s pretty clear from a lot of comments here that Google searches for “who can become Pope?” shot way up today.
A lot of cardinals want to be pope – they’re not going to elect a 45 year old pope who could potentially last 40+ years and put them totally out of the running forever. There hasn’t been a pope aged less than 50 since Clement VII was elected in 1523 – even popes younger than 65 are unusual.
– a bishop in charge of a relatively noteworthy diocese (though Pope Francis has picked cardinals from bishops among relatively minor diocese). think diocese like catholic version of metro area, combination of big city and surrounding suburbans and rural areas.
– working for the Holy See in a relatively high ranking position
for you to be either, you need to be quite experienced and gained achievements that make you have good reputation.
to be bishop younger than 50 is already considered an achievement. for you to be elevated to be cardinal before 60 is the same noteworthyness.
edit: John Paul II, pope from 1978 to 2005, was 58 when he was elected to be pope, and he was considered very young to be pope.
Most men don’t get ordained a priest until they are at least 26 years old (after 4 years of college and 4 years of seminary). It takes a long time to become a Bishop. It’s very rare for a priest to become a Bishop much before they are 40 (experience matters). It’s even more rare for a Bishop to be named a Cardinal much before they are age 50. Historically, the Cardinals don’t like to elect someone too young as Pope because: A) they don’t have the experience to lead such a mammoth organization; and B) the Church doesn’t really like long Pontificates. Pope John Paul II was elected Pope at age 58 and was the youngest elected in close to a century…he was also Pope for 26.5 years (Pope Pius IX was Pope for 31 years 7 months–Pius IX lived from 1792-1878 and became Pope in 1846 when he was 54).
The traditional ud erstsnding of leadership is that it requires experience, and nothing s more traditional than the Catholic church so…
I can’t seem to understand why the majority of powerful people are old. Must be some unsolvable mystery.
Surprised I haven’t seen the cgpgrey video linked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF8I_r9XT7A
but yeah it takes a long time to become eligible and usually you have to be a cardinal already as well, most of the cardinals are also old (45-91 according to wikipedia). I would imagine they are more likely to elect one of the more senior cardinals just due to rapport.
The people who vote on who get to be pope (the cardinals) are the same people who are eligible to be pope. Therefore, if you vote for someone young to be the next pope you’ve essentially ruined any chance for yourself to be elected pope as you’ll likely die first.
Also it takes a while to move up to cardinal, so they are generally all pretty old anyways.
https://youtu.be/kF8I_r9XT7A?si=s9ZRB6t-0hdXG96L This video FROM CGP Grey does a fantastic job of breaking it down 🙂
Risk aversion
About a thousand years ago some Cardinal managed to get his teenage son elected Pope and it didn’t end well. That’s a big part of why priests are supposed to be celibate now.
Theoretically speaking, any Catholic man can become Pope, if voted by the Cardinals. Practically, only a Cardinal can become a Pope because they know each other and what their ideas are, and becoming a Cardinal takes a looooong time
Have a look at the list of popes, top comment correctly points out that it takes time to climb the ladder to eligibility, but it is a tradition that since 1534 the popes have been at least 50 years old at crowning.
It makes the “king for life”-feature easier to manage if they should happen to get a mad king, he won’t live forever. Same with other flaws in the pope, it won’t be forever.
It may make it easier to deal with ambitious people, temper them and give them a chance to speak and act before they get the hat.
It takes friends and allies to win the vote. It takes circumstance. Making the case for your suitability may not be fast.
If you looks at the churches younger days it was wild, about a lot of power and relations to powerbrokers, that stuff benefitted from surety, knowing the creature you dealt with and such. The conditions for starting the traditions about the conclave is a relevant study in this question.
A younger guy would be in office for much longer.
With age comes wisdom believe it or not 😊
Why are they all men?
You have to ascend the ranks of the Catholic Church. That climb is like climbing a corporate ladder. It takes a long time and most never climb that high.
Here is a great video on it.
I saw one candidate was 56.
There is something written about the age they can be. I just watched Inferno last week, and this comes up
It really comes down to what the Cardinals are looking for, and sometimes it’s a continuation and sometimes it’s not. John Paul I only was Pope for a few days, which I think influenced the election of the much younger John Paul II. On the flip side his long time as Pope,.kind of influenced the election of the older Benedict and probably had a similar effect on Francis. So while the church believes the election is the work of the holy Spirit (which is why any male Catholic can be elected), politics does play into the choice. Then again there is a saying that being a favorite going into the conclave is usually a sure way to come out still a Cardinal.
To be clear, no one is a “Pope Candidate”. There are no nominations or campaigning that go into being pope. In fact the only requirement to be pope is that you are a MALE BAPTISTED CATHOLIC. Traditionally the Cardinals choose from their own to elevate to the papacy. However they don’t have too. The Catholic world was shocked when Francis was chosen (almost as shocked as he was, as he had only packed a small suitcase to attend the conclave.) Of course the Catholic Commentators had “front runners”, but they were all wrong.
To be elevated to the seat of Cardinal there are certain steps, and it does take years, thus why so many Cardinals are advanced in age. Cardinals that are more well known are more likely to have their name written down during the conclave, but again there is no campaigning. If someone is actively trying to be pope, or wants to become pope, then they SHOULD NOT be pope.
The faithful believe that the Holy Spirit guides the Cardinals in their decision. Generally it takes a couple of votes before a pope is chosen, it’s quite the process. After the first vote names are read aloud to the Cardinals and then burned. The tally is never revealed outside the Sistine Chapel Walls. Only once a consensus is reached (2/3 majority), that man is immediately elevated to the position.
Generally speaking you have to be a cardinal, and that takes a long time. The youngest cardinal is 45 and he’s an outlier; the next youngest is 51.
By the time you become a cardinal you are pretty old.
More experience makes for a better leader. 40 year-olds only have 20 years adult experience at most.
You gotta be at least 70 before the Vatican even considers you holy enough to hold a staff and not a selfie stick.
Likely part of it is the same reason why the US only pushes for old candidates for president, the ones making the call won’t support someone younger than them, so it ends up being someone old.
Why are they all men?
Why are all politicians old?
Its Neoplatonic in origin. Numbers are important to the Church interior.
Watch the movie Conclave. It’s fiction, but an interesting peek into Vatican politics and the pope selection process.
Lifetime commitment to chasing the satellite
“Let’s put an old geezer in for now, so I’ll have a better shot in a couple years when this guy and Cardinal Mario both have kicked the bucket”.
-Cardinal Wario
takes a long time
church isn’t known for moving or changing quickly. By having older ‘applicants’ it helps slow down the change
Technically they could. Usually the Cardinals select the new pope from among their own ranks. It takes time to rise from priest to bishop to cardinal. By then you’re probably middle-aged, at least. Then you are competing with older cardinals who have had time to play the political game and line up support from the other cardinals. So not really a young man’s thing. Also, it’s a lifetime appointment so selecting someone older is a safe choice. Live with the consequences of a bad choice for 10-15 years? Or 40-50 years?
Yes, like everything else in life, it’s politics.
Life experience
The pope is elected by and from cardinals, and like any other political organization, they want their chances to be in charge.
Partly politics, partly it takes a long time to advance in church hierarchy enough to be considered eligible. A younger person also might hold more progressive views than even Pope Francis did, and plenty of people don’t want that.
No level one clerics.
Perfect question for CGP Grey! https://youtu.be/kF8I_r9XT7A?si=w547W1pTiQHgjp4z
Pope is a prestige class. You have to spend a long time leveling up to be eligible.
It takes like a doctorate in Theology and at least 5 years of priesthood to get a chance to become a bishop, then get promoted to cardinal by the last pope. Naturally, that is a long process and the candidates are accordingly pretty damn old
Well, they did have a really young one who was in his teens. He quit, came back and if I recall the content from Saints and Sinners: A History of the Popes documentary correctly: he died while having sex with a married woman. Pope John XII, I think
Unlike politicians the pope doesn’t need to be healthy and energetic as he is mainly a figurehead and can be easily replaced if he passes. Plus, he’s meant to be old and wise. And an old man is less likely to get himself in some sort of scandal.
You have to do your time through the catholic hierarchical system and you don’t want a long serving pope in case they upset the catholic hierarchical system.
The last time they had a younger pope, Ewan Mac Gregor ended up setting himself on fire.
So they stuck to the older guys. Less risk of immolation that way.
The same reason some countries put terms limits on political or judicial positions to prevent a long time under the same person.
Historically when there wasn’t a single strong candidate it wasn’t unusual to pick a very old compromise candidate because they wouldn’t be around long anyway.
A 40 year old could be in the role for 40 years.
The only requirements to be pope is to be a male, unmarried, and Catholic. Deacons, priests have been elected pope before. The only people who can vote for the pope are the cardinals, people who have been priests, then bishops and elevated up from there (normally, rare exceptions). Thus, the pope could in theory be as young as mid 20’s, a priest or deacon fresh out of seminary. Reality is that more likely, the cardinals will elected one from their ranks.
Same reason politicians are old. Years of grifting and corruption to build your power base and support
Experience is required for the job. A 40 year old priest is considered a kid
About 10 years younger than US presidents these days.
You have to be a cardinal. Most Cardinals are 50+.
You have to be a cardinal when the pope passes away, meaning that not only do you have to already be a Cardinal, but the pope who appointed you has to pass away. This makes it hard for a new Cardinal to attend a conclave.
Cardinal electors generally refuse to elect someone appointed by the pope who just passed away. This means not only do you have to become a cardinal and be a cardinal when the Pope passes away, you have to have been appointed a cardinal by the previous pope, who then passes away, and then the next pope has to also pass away before you get a chance. That’s anywhere from 20+ years after you become a Cardinal.
That, and the 80 year rule, limits the candidates to about 15 out of 250+ living cardinals.
The minimum age to be a bishop is 35, and you typically would be a bishop for a few years before becoming a cardinal. Currently, there’s only one cardinal under 50 and only 15 (out of 135 cardinal electors under 80) under 60.
I’ll have a bloody mary
Only the cardinals can decide and, although they can elect any priest of any age, they ain’t giving up their princely power that easily!
They watched HBO’s “The Young Pope” and said fuck that!
The papacy is a political office. The higher the political office the more experienced the pool of candidates.
The more experience to more years of age, with few exceptions.
Takes a long time to build the political capital to garner the support.
Because they got that good popey mojo.
Wisdom takes time.
It’s time for another Warrior-Pope
In the past 800 or so years, every pope has been a cardinal when they were elected. While in the past 100 years or so, it has become more common for cardinals not to be bishops or archbishops, this is an honor usually accorded to theologians who would be too old to vote. You do not get made a cardinal without having been a prominent bishop or archbishop for a while. It is almost unheard of in this day and age to be made a bishop before the age of 40, let alone a cardinal.
For most people, the path to a senior position in the Church looks something like this: you complete secondary education around age 18, take a 3 or 4 year baccalaurate degree, then there’s at least 5 or 6 years of education in a seminary before ordination as a priest. This is where things get interesting. In order to become a bishop, you need either a doctorate or master’s degree in sacred theology or a doctorate in canon law. Depending on your educational attainments, ability to navigate diocesan politics/networking and the needs of your diocese or religious order, they might send you to get one of those degrees immediately or they may have you do regular pastoral work for a few years. Best case scenario, you go to do the master’s immediately after ordination, say four years. Congratulations, you are now 30 or 31 and it is still about five years before you are even eligible for a bishopric.
When that time does come, you’ll likely be appointed an auxiliary bishop of an archdiocese or large diocese first and spend five to ten years doing that before you get your own diocese. You might have one or two dioceses under your belt before you’re appointed archbishop of a see that usually gets a cardinal and even then, you won’t get it immediately, because the previous archbishop will still be a voting cardinal until he turns 80.
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It’s a tradition at this point. It comes from the medieval era, and Italian nobles are trying to put their children into the power of the papacy. To prevent the nobles from controlling for decades they established that the Pope must be old to prevent a noble Italian family for having control of the papacy for too long. Unfortunately like a lot of traditions the church has. It’s no longer needed, and kinda useless in the present age but will probably be kept due to the obsession of tradition.
Maybe they don’t want a pope to be around that long.
Theoretically , any Catholic is eligible to be Pope, having been quite a few non-cardinal popes elected over history, with the last being elected in the 14th century. Of course, there is a reason why they prefer their own to be Pope, if not for the fact that in general it tends to limit the influence of foreign countries on trying to push their non-cardinal candidates to the Head of Catholicism, like it happened a lot in the 14th century with France.
People here are also very right that picking old candidates serve as an informal lit specially to bad candidates, but I contextualize a bit more on this point. From a historical perspective the last 200 years have been some of the most turbulent in the history of the Church. The progressively decay of Italy in the geopolitical scene weaken the power of the papacy too by the 18th century, in this century and the 19th there was also a much stronger control in the catholic countries over their national ecclesiastical, making the appointments of high priest often needing direct approval from the ruler, as was the case of my country Brazil, where any appointment of bishops in the country at the time of the Empire HAD to be approved by the Emperor, in copy of the national church’s of Protestant monarchies. Then came the French Revolution which bought the idea of secularism to the State and the first wave of mass anti-theism into Europe. From there on the church would pass through decay and become a much more obscurantist and conservative institution. While in the 18th century catholic priests could often be at the forefront of important scientific and technical innovations, something that would in part continue to the 20th century, the Church would get more and more anti-science and progressive over the course of the 19th century. This came in large part to the main political issue for the Church until post WW2, mainly the control of education in catholic countries. As education became more and more a formal preoccupation of the State, there was a growing interest in secularize the country’s school system, which was a direct threat to the church supremacy in that area. As a result they became stuck in nasty political battles in France and the rest of Europe, and start to ally themselves more and more with the conservative elements of the continent, with their intense anti-intellectual bias but that supported the church’s domain over education. This alliance made the Church become more and more reactionary over the century, coming to the height when the Curia decided to officially condemn abortion, which before the Church in general weren’t interested in the question, and it came thanks to French pressure. They got even more radical after losing their territories after the Italian unification.
As it can be seen, poor popes can have huge influence even to this day
Yep — it’s politics. The Church loves “experience,” which usually just means old.
Also, a 40-year-old pope could rule for 40+ years, and nobody wants to be stuck with the wrong guy for that long.
The majority of these comments are people just making stuff up.
There is a minimum age to be pope. False. The youngest was between 12 and 20 years old.
They have to be a cardinal, bishop, etc. False. Only cardinals have been elected pope for 600 years, but it’s not technically a requirement.
They die quickly. False. In the last 50 years, there have only been 4 popes, partly because one resigned.
They are old because it is a revered position, and they want someone who’s has truly dedicated their life to the church.