I’ve been trying to find a sub where this question fits the rules. I do not only want to ask men or think men are the only ones that do this. I just read SO many stories where it is the case that someone shares they aren’t ready for marriage because they want to be in some sort of better situation or just feel “ready,” but they’ve already bought a house and had babies with a person. It is very confusing to me.
Why are so many people willing to have a baby and a mortgage with someone but balk at taking the “big step” of marriage?
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Since you shitlords like to delete your posts, here’s an original copy of /u/bellemountain’s post (if available):
I’ve been trying to find a sub where this question fits the rules. I do not only want to ask men or think men are the only ones that do this. I just read SO many stories where it is the case that someone shares they aren’t ready for marriage because they want to be in some sort of better situation or just feel “ready,” but they’ve already bought a house and had babies with a person. It is very confusing to me.
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Getting married is generally listed as one of the more stressful of life’s big steps. Planning a wedding, all the paperwork etc… When you’re already juggling 2 kids and a mortgage together, throwing in a wedding is just another stress on top of a busy (and generally expensive) life.
Plenty of people don’t feel the need to get married either. They’re not fussed about having an additional label (with all the additional legal stuff) for a relationship that they already expect to be a lifetime one.
There’s clearly written out expectations for a mortgage, and you know how it will behave 15 years from now, but people grow and change.
Also, depending where you live, marriage can be even more of a financial commitment than a mortgage with spousal support clauses and “matrimonial assets”.
It’s hard to be sure what others think. As a married guy, it’s disappointing how few tax advantages we got from getting married. We actually get a few benefits reduced to one per family instead of one each, and income splitting doesn’t exist. There’s also no real improvement over common law for legal stuff.
Frankly, i did it because of what it means to me. Logically and practically, it’s more hassle than its worth.
Have a house together and the relationship goes wrong, you lose half your house. Get married and you lose half your wealth/pension and everything you’ve worked for. Marriage gives no tangible benefits and huge risks.
Marriage was created by God for 1 man and 1 woman and is only meant for godly believing couples. It’s good that everyone else has decided not to LARP as married or defame God’s creation of marriage by pretending to be married while not being godly believers. The more we separate the church and the state the better. Y’all like that don’t you? Yea so marriage is for godly believers and the rest of you shouldn’t participate in it.
They don’t want to legally be screwed over I suppose. If they won’t sign a prenup they’re not worth marrying imo.
Because the bank can’t decide at any moment on a whim to rob me of half (or well more than half) my net worth and take the kids too
Rest are 18-20 years responsibility.
Marriage is for life!!
House: I’m going to work hard, invest a lot, and after 20 years I’ll have created an asset.
Child: I’m going to work hard, invest a lot, and after 20 years I’ll have created an asset.
Marriage: I’m going to work hard, invest a lot, but at any time it can all be taken from me through no fault or choice of my own. If this happens I get none of my investment back
When I was younger, I always wondered why you “needed” to get married.
After 30 years of marriage, I realize it isn’t about the mortgage or even the baby, it’s about the partnership.
Just look at the language, “We had a baby together” vs “We had a baby”. Or “We bought a house together” vs “We bought a house”.
Small difference in verbiage, but the meaning is different.
The first is transactional, like working on a project. The second is a partnership, we supplanted “me” and “them”.
Because there’s a ton of potential downsides and very few practical benefits. You don’t need a label or a document to show your love and commitment to someone. Weddings are generally a massive waste of money.
I wouldn’t get married without a prenuptial agreement.
Because once the marriage is over men become walking ATMs.
The fear of marriage seems like a very American thing. In many other countries, there are laws that make sure what you bring into a marriage stays yours.
Because lawyers. /thread.
With a mortgage you’re just dealing with a bank. With a marriage you involve the courts.
Do none of y’all pay taxes? At least in the U.S., marriage plays a significant role in reducing your tax burden, especially if you make significantly more than your wife.
Guys will tell women I wanna have a baby and move in but no marriage lol
I don’t understand why people want to bring the government into their lives. I understand that in critical moments being married allows the other person to make decisions for you but there’s other paperwork you can sign to allow that if you trust the person that much.
Not everyone wants to sign a contract that requires the courts and sometimes years of legal work to get out. Everyone I know who went through a divorce spent years back and forth in a court. The whole fairytale of riding off into the sunset with your partner for life imho is dead and even if that’s your reality you do not need to get married for that.
You can buy a house and by having the names on the deed is the protection you need to get your share at sale, if that’s not enough protection you can draft a contract for that.Marriage doesn’t guarantee your partner will be a good parent, and if both parents work you maybe eligible for more benefits by not signing that paperwork.
This is solely my opinion but the idea of marriage is a dying institution.
I honestly don’t understand it either. Having a kid is such a bigger commitment…. At least it’s SUPPOSED to be.
End rant I guess.
No one understands it
I think the word you’re looking for is immaturity. There seems to be a lot of it going on.
Idk about all that but for many, it’s just viewed as an unnecessary contract. If already got kids, a home, and a life together… what would adding that element actually accomplish? Asking from a place of love & logical curiosity.
It’s only the big step when it’s the actual next big step to take when committing to one another and setting out to build a life.
Getting married at that point isn’t a big step towards anything but more paperwork
At this point I think the big party just makes em nervous lol
I love how many times the 50% failure rate is mentioned. If housing was affordable, what do you think that number would be?
For my own purposes I want children and I afforded to buy my house by myself. But since I have ~2M in assets I’m a bit hesitant to get married and face losing all my wealth.
Why any man would want to get married in the 21st century is beyond me. What benefit does being married provide over simply being in a long term relationship? Beyond the moderately preferential tax treatment I can’t think of a single good reason why a man should want to get married if he can avoid it. If I already had a mortgage and a baby with a woman the last thing I’d want is a marriage contract too.
I don’t think that is guy specific. I had a female boss that was the same way. With a dude for like 20 years, lived together, had kids, etc. and just would not get married. Some people just really don’t like the idea for whatever reason.
Marriage is a very cultural thing. I have a long term partner, we have a lovely house and squeaking balls of love we call our kid.
But marriage just isn’t needed? It’s essentially a very expensive party to make the law recognise what you know already. We’ve been together a decade, there are adequate protections in place legally should we split… So why spend the cash?
Any penny I spend on what I see as a selfish party is money I’m not directly spending on my kids or partner.
A house won’t take itself from you in the divorce or hold your kids over your head as leverage during it.
Ignorant fools.
Because they don’t understand that having children is a bigger step than marriage. Honestly, becoming a parent should be the number 1 commitment people should hesitate about before crossing that bridge. You can get divorced from a poor marriage; can’t “divorce” your kid – that’s just being a shitty parent.
More practically, I think a lot of people just have a lot of angst about marriage – from having their parents divorce or having gone through one themselves. Many people also don’t feel the need to get married, thinking it’s simply a formality or doesn’t have any benefit. In the United States, there are definitely benefits to marriage and it provides more protection for any kids folk may share, but I personally don’t like to think people should or should not get married just for financial considerations. If you don’t WANT to get married, okay, then don’t; it must not mean that much to you. If you do want to get married – it is important to you – okay, then. But a mortgage is still a 15/30 year commitment that can end in bankruptcy and children are forever so perhaps think about those steps too.
If mortgage and a kid seems like no big deal but marriage scares someone, that person is just not very bright. They all should cause you to think a bit.
Jeez, the question isn’t to dump your social media inherited trauma about marriage it’s pointing out that having children and entering into a mortgage are both long term commitments that share both benefits and risks, like a marriage.
But a lot of men seem willing to enter into a 30 year, legally binding financial commitment of a mortgage or the life time commitment of co-parenting with a girlfriend, but marriage is somehow too big of a commitment and that logic doesn’t make sense.
And personally I agree with OP. If a person is too unreliable and untrustworthy and you are worried about them divorcing you and ruining you financially, then they are too unreliable and untrustworthy to enter into a mortgage with and you don’t want to co-parent with them, teaching your child their unreliable and untrustworthy values.
Personally I think it’s one of the riskiest things I’ve seen is buying a house with someone you are dating.
Never get into financial bed with someone you’re not married to.
Some people just don’t care about marriage in general, some people actively anti marriage.
A lot of men only marry because they feel pressured to, not because it’s some deep yearning inside them. They haven’t been dreaming about it since they were a kid.
I’m not anti marriage myself, but I also wouldn’t care if I never married at all.
Because society normalized parenting without commitment, but still romanticizes marriage as some ‘final boss’ of adulthood
Marriage is a legally binding contract with the state or local government….one that can and does destroy someone’s financial security should the marriage end
Human beings are perfectly capable of making a lasting, lifelong commitment to one another without involving a legally binding contract with the state government
The act of putting your trust into another human being that they won’t financially destroy you should they choose to want to end the marriage is a big step. And because of social media, more and more people are starting to see that marriage is not something they want because it’s too much of a risk
The happiest couple I ever knew never got married. They committed to one another, kept all their finances separate. They both worked. Both contributed equally…and the had a great life together.
Marriage is not something anyone should ever consider unless they know, for sure, the person they are marrying is their ride or die partner
Because I like to avoid the legal contract that says you get half of everything I am going to work. I wouldn’t leave anyone destitute, but I’ve sacraficed too much for someone to take half.
Another one – feminism killed a lot of traditions. In many cases, marriage was an unintended consequence.
50?% of marriages end in divorce.
“We’re married now, don’t need to keep trying.”
No marriage, either can leave any time, we work to keep it together. And we get to prove the naysayers wrong!
Have you seen how much it costs to get married! Spend it on the honeymoon.
Because they dont want to incentivise you to leave by signing a contract that helps guarantee you get cash and prizes if you leave.
Because baby is one thing, mortgage is another, but marriage can involve both of the previous so it’s more significant.
I don’t know why it’s confusing. They don’t wanna get married. That’s it. They don’t want to get married.
For me my parents divorced when I was 2 and used me to fight between them. For my partner her parents lived in a mostly loveless relationship for 20 years before divorce. My partner and I have spent more happy years together than both our parents combined and live an incredible life. What I cant figure out is why so many ppl are obsessed with asking us why we are not married.
Because they aren’t willing to legally commit to their partner. If you’re not married, ending the relationship is much easier. They must have at least some reservations about their partner.
In some cases all they would need to pay is child support and not half of what they own after separation.
Family courts overwhelming favor women in divorce. If not married, they are only responsible for child support. No access to the person’s other assets. Marriage has a lot more liability.
I don’t need a marriage to feel like I’m in a deep relationship with my “wife”. If I want a baby, there is not really an alternative than allowing resources to it. From my point of view it’s: self-imposed restriction that aren’t needed vs imposed restriction because there is no alternative to reach the goal.
Depending on where they live, there can also be things like a marriage tax.
Where basically as two people having to file together their income clears a level to the higher tax rates.
It’s usually only seen with very high earners, but it can be seen in other cases too. Some states do have it: https://taxfoundation.org/taxedu/glossary/marriage-penalty/ ((Note, biased link))
Marriage offers nothing, having babies has upsides, marriage doesn’t.
People internalized the wrong messages about marriage.
Marriage is lit man. I’m tired of people making people think it’s not. It’s kind of the best thing in the world, being married to your best friend.
Now I imagine a bad marriage would be terrible but a good, fun, loving marriage is absolutely the best.
Family court overwhelmingly favors women in divorce. I used to have a very progressive view about this, but the wool was ripped from my eyes when I had to go through it myself.
You can do everything right, get cheated on, and she’ll still walk away with most of your stuff and the kids.
So my first wife we rushed into it. We had a kid rushed and got married. Then in almost a record time fell apart and started a downward spiral that damn near cost me my job, it cost me tons of money and the mental health aspect of it just destroyed me for many many years. I was mean because I was hurt she was mean because she was hurt. It involved the kids so that was super fucked up. It was just bad all around. The second time I was planning on moving with my GF at the time and living with her then after a year or so having the kids come live with us. Well I moved in with her on a wednesday and the kids moved in like the next monday. I didnt want to be married because that was when shit went south. So we didn’t she was understanding. We ended up married in 2019 17 years later.
Idk its wild. My ex wanted kids soon (despite us not making enough money to raise them), and wanted me to help him co sign a home, but said I wasn’t grown up enough for marriage with him.
I am not having kids or purchasing a home with someone who isn’t my husband lol
Although having kids and buying a house are more impactful, I think that’s part of the reason why marriage is sometimes the last step – it doesn’t meaningfully impact your relationship on a daily basis compared to being unmarried. We can debate the validity of the downsides of marriage all day long (and people already are in the comments), but for many people, marriage is just checking a box, while owning a home or having children together have real, tangible impact.
I’m going to give my perspective here as a woman if that’s okay, if not, I totally understand and will delete.
My partner and I have been together for ten years, lived together approx. seven, made the decision at the end of last year to take the next step to grow our family (currently pregnant) and still aren’t married. He did propose after we talked baby but neither of us are pushing for a wedding, we’ll probably stay engaged for a few years until we’re ready to prioritize planning and after our lives resettle.
A lot of people have said finances, not trusting partner, etc. but for some of us it’s really just laziness. Maybe we’d get some tax incentives but there isn’t any main benefit we have to push us to be legally married. We’re already committed to one another and don’t really see a legal marriage changing anything so we haven’t been bothered to put the time or effort into it.
Former family law attorney here. Lives are destroyed by divorce. Financially, mentally, physically destroyed. What are the upsides?
The cost/benefit analysis is not in marriages favor, at least without kids/mortgages being involved.
Because over 50% of marriages fail. When it fails you can lose a lot of things you’ve built or earned. People are rightfully and correctly apprehensive about it.
There needs to be a conversion on why people are getting married. What problem is marriage solving? Are you and your partner getting married for the same reasons? Do you have an exit strategy if things go wrong?
You mention a 30 year mortgage as a comparison to marriage. If you want out from the house, you sell it. Divorce is messy. Kids are definitely a better comparison, but kids are very different from a partner. Getting the wrong partner can ruin your life.
All that said, there are great benefits and perks for being married and a lot of them aren’t universal. It needs to be figured out by the couple in open and candid conversations. Those are difficult but are required. You don’t always have to agree, but you need to be able to talk about finances, sex, living situation, work and income, future growth and retirement planning. If you can’t talk about money with your partner, why are you marrying them?
All risk, no reward.
In marriage a man can lose more than 50% of everything and a woman can gain much more. If ther eis.no marriage, everythingnis generally split down the middle.
There is also tue beliefe women will fake who theu are until they get a ring. Which after about 3-4 months, you see who they are. They will slip up wearing the mask.
I think part of it is just the fact that marriage doesn’t have some other purpose beyond attatching you to another person.
Making a baby with someone is obviously a much bigger commitment than marrying them, but it might not feel that way since you don’t make a baby for the commitment part. You do it for the baby part!
Marriage is all about the commitment. Legally attaching yourself to another person is the entire point. Great for people who want or need that legal binding (such as those who need to change our next-of-kin), but there’s no other draw for anybody who isn’t jazzed about being legally tied to their partner.
Because their head’s not on straight.
A lot of risk with very little reward. To me, the pros do not outweigh the cons. The opposite is true in having children (many pros, fewer cons). I’ve always been much more interested in being a father than a husband🤷♂️.