In a lot of bodycam videos, I notice that once an Officer decides they’ve ‘had enough’ of someone trying to explain their situation or trying to claim they didn’t do something they clearly did, they make a declaration that this person is now going to jail. Often, the suspect begins retracting or climbing down the hill they wanted to previously die on. To my untrained eye, this seems like the perfect opportunity to allow them to rectify whatever situation would have kept them out of jail (i.e. unpaid restaurant bill, return ‘borrowed’ property), but every time, they continue with the arrest process through pleas and the suspect saying “okay, I’ll do XYZ now”. Is there a reason why there’s no second chance once you verbally declare someone under arrest?
EDIT: I’m only asking a question, I do not have an opinion or a criticism behind asking this question, only curiosity.
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Because they’ve already had a second chance and a third chance. Also I know this might be wild but sometimes people say one thing at the time and then won’t actually do it when it comes down to it.
Because it reinforces the idea they can continue to disobey a lawful order
How many chances should we be giving someone?
Because once the cuffs come out and we enter the “find out” stage, we do not return to the “fuck around” stage.
According to my state laws and by my departments policy, once I tell someone they are under arrest and they are in cuffs, they must be taken in front of a judge. I legally cannot unarrest them at that point.
I give people a lot of chances when I can. I use ask, tell, make when appropriate but when it’s not I’ll let you buy your ride to jail or your ticket.
1st off, want to say, not a cop (I know it’s askaLEO)
Seems pretty simple to me: actions have consequences. Person learns said consequences are real. If a LEO does that it just shows that person said consequences aren’t real.
The people in these bodycam videos aren’t children, they’re full grown adults. They had 18+ years to learn cause and effect.
At some point, people need to understand that there are consequences to the choices they make.
Suddenly backtracking on a consequence reduces or eliminates the value of said consequence. The person is more likely to return to their previous behavior.
I understand that getting a consequence doesn’t always mean a person might change their behavior, but it’s still more likely than the result of no consequence at all.
Arrest is a hard line. Once that line is crossed you don’t get to go back just because you realized the officer wasn’t lying about it.
Like with disciplining children, you eventually paint yourself in to a corner and your hand is forced… if you allow suspects to rollback their own nonsense, and fold to their whining and crying, then you’re in for a very long and miserable career. They will walk all over you. If your kid starts to cry or throw a tantrum and you say okay, Nevermind, just please don’t do it again…. They know they’ve got you.
Kids thrive off of a discipline. Society does too.
Cases aren’t tried on the street. That’s what courts are for.
Because people are fucking liars 🤣
In a world without consequences this would work.
“It’s for you can learn,” a heard a wife say to her husband who was being arrested after talking himself into an arrest where a ticket would’ve handled the situation if his ego didn’t get in the way.
Because every time a cop lets people argue, gripe, resist etc and then don’t follow through with the arrest after they have said they are going to do it you wind up making the next cops job that much harder because the person thinks if the repeat their actions the next cop will do the same.
It’s like dealing with a child. If you explain how something is to be done and are clear about the consequences for not doing it, and then follow through the kid learns there is an unacceptable result from not listening.
Reverse it and let them keep acting the fool and they will learn the can keep pushing the limits.
Cops are like anyone else. We all have things we want to do after shift, family events, relaxing or going out or maybe it’s just not wanting to deal with the person throughout the arrest process. So they get cut slack they wouldn’t normally get. But as I said that makes it harder for the next cop.
The way I preferred it, and so did most of my coworkers, was the 3 step process:
Explain what is going on and then:
1 – ask the person politely to do whatever it is you need them to do. If they comply then deescalation can happen and you can continuing with asking for cooperation.
2 – if they didn’t comply you tell them to do it (are you asking me? No I’m giving you a legal order to do… and if you do not the next step is I will make you comply.” If they now comply then deescalation can happen and you can go back to 1 for the next step.
3 – if they still haven’t complied then you follow through and make them. That could mean using minimal force to remove someone who is trespassing. It could mean forcing someone out of the car and arresting them because they wouldn’t ID. If “making” them involves an arrest then so be it. Once you reach the “make” point then there’s no going backwards.
So just so you understand, everyone here is saying it can’t/wont be reversed based on principle, not based on law. You absolutely can back out of arresting someone if you feel like you have good reason to, as a matter of principle though, if someone makes a series of decisions after being warned not to, they will see the consequences of it. It won’t get reversed because the person realizes you’re serious. However, if some new information comes to light in a different scenario, yes, you absolutely can take the handcuffs off and let someone go.
They had their opportunity. It was when I said “If you don’t (leave / stop / you name it), I will arrest you.”
That was it. I told them, they decided to continue with whatever nonsense I warned them about.
FAFO
The decision to arrest or not is a pretty important one, and by the time we have enough information and observations to get to “you have the right to…” it is the only correct action to take. Failing to arrest when it is warranted is a big no-no, because overlooking significant criminal behavior is bad policy. If you wouldn’t arrest when there’s no evidence indicating the need to do so, then you really can’t not arrest when there is.
Because you (1) ask them, (2) tell them, and then (3) make them. It only works in one direction.
Backing off on a decision to pinch someone really means that you didn’t actually make that decision. There’s no place for wishy-washy in LE.
The scenario that you’re describing, the person already had a second chance and a third chance and a fourth chance and a 5th chance and a sixth chance and a seventh chance and an eighth chance and then finally it was enough.
They are not actually agreeing to do whatever, they’re just trying to get out of being arrested, the second you back off and not arrest them, they will go right back to what they were doing.
Furthermore it sets a terrible precedent, people need to comprehend that it isn’t a joke and it isn’t a game when a lawful order is given that it is either followed or they will be arrested. It’s very straightforward.
People also will literally be throwing punches while screaming that they’re not resisting. Just because they say something doesn’t mean they’re going to do it.
How many bodcam videos do you see that don’t end in an arrest? Or at least some other indecent worthy of publishing the footage?
A principal I always believed in was to try to never make it harder for the next cop this person meets. If I arrest them after giving many, many opportunities, then change my mind, it just teaches them that there’s still a chance to lie, beg and plead. Once the final decision is made, it’s final.
Because that wouldn’t be a second chance it would be a 19th chance…
They follow through on the arrest to avoid a game of testing boundaries and pushing until it is too late. This is the exact same reason I would tell my preschool age kids what would happen if they didn’t stop bad behavior, and then if they didn’t stop, I followed through, and later reminded them that I had told them what would happen. They learned that I meant what I said, and turned out to be great well behaved kids. If the cops stopped the arrest when these idiots start yelling “OK! OK! I’ll do what you’re telling me to do!”, then all the idiots will learn is that they can get the cops to stop the arrest.
FAFO
Once they are cuffed, unless order by a superior, perp is getting processed.
He might beat it court, but never on the side of the road.
The same reason why you don’t tell your kids no and allow them to continue doing the same bad behavior
Because the next time, they won’t do XYZ.
Because if the police back down, typically the subject gets back up on that hill. I’ve seen rookie officers do it where they acquiesce and without fail the subject immediately becomes uncooperative again.
Because they had ample time to stop fucking around sooner, or maybe they shouldn’t have fucked around in the first place.
I once had a guy trying giving me a fake name, and as much as I tried to talk to him for maybe 5 minutes, he insisted that he was fake name. Even after I showed him a picture of the real person fake name was for. Dumb-dumb had a lot of face tattoos that were a lot different from fake name’s face tattoos, and he still swore by it.
After he was in cuffs, it was all apologies. He was a drug fiend watching over a drug set. I honestly probably would have acted like I never saw the warrant when checking his real info if he just gave me that in the first place.
I should note, this was a short-staffed, high-crime PD with a retention problem, and an admin that discouraged going after the fiends rather than the dealers. I would never seen the inside of IA for this.
“Hey man, I wasn’t actually gonna stab that guy. Just don’t arrest me and I’ll go home”
This is what you’re suggesting. When you commit a crime you don’t get to pull the “dude it’s just a joke” card like an 11 year old to escape consequences.
Antagonizing a police officer is a crime. Not complying with a traffic stop is a crime. You don’t get a free pass just because you decide to not commit more crimes.
Because they had all their chances before that.