It’s interesting as a gay man because I definitely align more with how women socialize because I like socializing with them more often.
While men certainly also seek external validation, it definitely seems to be more prevalent in female groups, me included because I skew more feminine.
Is it just the difference between how men socialize vs women?
I see men complain about it here often – “my ex girlfriend needed external validation” etc.
Why is this?
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It’s interesting as a gay man because I definitely align more with how women socialize because I like socializing with them more often.
While men certainly also seek external validation, it definitely seems to be more prevalent in female groups, me included because I skew more feminine.
Is it just the difference between how men socialize vs women?
I see men complain about it here often – “my ex girlfriend needed external validation” etc.
Why is this?
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We self validate, we’re taught that when we’re young. We don’t strive for someone else to tell us we’re okay. We know we’re okay. We’re men, we built the world and provide for others so they can live in it. We’re validated by achievements, not from the attention of wearing a mini skirt and twerking.
Typical gender norms push for men to be more independent and self reliant and that’s seen as a more masculine trait.
The more self reliant we are, the less help and validation we need from others.
Needing validation from others can also be seen as a vulnerability which I would say many discourage men from showing.
But for me personally, my emotions don’t really push me to want to seek validation much from people in general except for maybe a romantic partner. I just kind of don’t think about it much and just try to be myself.
Because we are told how much of a blunder it is early on. There’s a lot of asterisks and contradictions with how we can present ourselves sometimes. Sort of expecting us to adhere to older gender norms while also doing our own thing. We cannot really talk about certain things without having to jump through hoops actually be heard and not get dismissed.
I always get the impression that 90% of what people say men “don’t do”, we do, just differently, and because people are less likely to explicitly talk about it you can get by pretending it doesn’t exist.
I see men look for external validation all the time. Just look at how straight men treat getting a girlfriend.
They just don’t do it the same way women tend to do it (notably, there’s a lot less focus on physical appearance, so it more has to do with other aspects of “status”).
That’s my take at least.
We do.
It’s just that we’re often waaaaaaay harder on ourselves than girls (seem to be) among themselves.
Mean girls are a thing but I notice a lot more comradery among girls validating one another; For us (or at least me, growing up in the 90s) you get dragged for acting like that.
Men do seek external validation. We just have an additional stigma where looking like you seek validation makes you look way worse as a (heterosexual) man.
(btw, testosterone is also the hormone that regulates the motivation to do actions that maintain social standing, if you need a biological reason why)
on average we are more disagreeable
Hierarchy within the group and fear of social ostracism. Historically and genetically women need the group. So, they are hyper aware of group dynamics at all times. A pregnant woman needs the assistance of the group to survive, and rank within the group determines how many resources are provided to her and her offspring. In group preferences, dynamics, and alliances shift all the time, thus status within the group applies at all times.
Men on the other hand sort out group dynamics rather quickly and it remains pretty static. It’s often reliant on what the guy can provide to the group.
A man’s value to the group is measured on resources he can bring to the group. A woman’s value to the group is intrinsic to her sex, so resource distribution must be determined in different ways.
This is very likely based on the numbers game… as in women will have interest from many guys and the guy likely isnt being honest with her about her looks compared to other women., shes not sure if she looks better or if shes just the next target so cant trust what he says about her looks.
Guys will base validation on how many women interact with him, the higher the number the more he feels ok with his looks, however there is a cut off point, i dont get any interaction so i have realized i will never get validation so i no longer look for it, and if i get it its not genuine and means its a trap, based on historic numbers of past valid real interactions.
If a guy gets 1-5 genuine random interest a year, he knows how many he will get next year so he knows the number, should i guy get none per year and get rejected every time he approaches or says anything, he knows his validation level….
While not all men, most just quietly get stuff done. Maybe a little of it is conditioning; if you expect that validation, you’re seen as a bit of a tool.
Women on the other hand are social creatures. When in groups, they will share more stuff than men do. Therefore external validation for women is more important than it is for men
Anyone that is posting pictures of themselves on social media is clearly looking for external validation.
I think men seek just as much validation, we’re just taught to not do it openly, not admit to it and we don’t have many outlets that allow for it.
Because they seek validation from being useful . They are socially acceptable only when they bring value to the table.
Women however are only accepted when we are polite/loving/PRETTY. Women are also evolving so additional validation is being added on. Being pretty and accomplished is now the average goal. We also tend to have more emotional intelligence so we VERBALIZE it.
Men will not say they need external validation, they will just silently work to get it and have solo mental break downs wondering why they’re so angry
These are generalized statements about anyone seeking validation because no matter the gender seeking validation from people outside of your community (family/spouse/close friends whose opinions you genuinely value) is toxic behavior.
The answer regarding an emotionally stable woman/man: They don’t.
I think it’s maybe that my Validation Cup is very small and even small “wins” in my life have significant impact on my moods. Like if I go to the store to buy tomatoes, and I find a particularly tasty looking bunch, that basically sets my day up for positivity.
I also had a pretty bad period between 2021-2023 where every day was some kind of mediumly significant pain or discomfort or very unpleasant physical anxiety, so I try to appreciate the days that go okay.
I don’t know if that all kindof sortof answered your question. I guess overall I just have a different mindset around Validation. My bar is very low
My take: most men don’t get a lot of external validation, for a variety of reasons, so we don’t seek it as much. Why chase something you’re unlikely to receive? Even the act of seeking validation is commonly seen as a character flaw. Some of us validate ourselves internally, others deal with it in less healthy ways.
We are pack animals, to super simplify, men want to be the leader, women want to be the favorite. We both seek validation, but in different ways.
because cosmetics companies haven’t been conditioning us into having low self-esteem so that we’d buy their shit
It may seem like men don’t seek external validation but they do, they just don’t post thirst traps…cause isn’t cheating men’s way of seeking external validation. Picking a woman other men find attractive etc..
Validation doesn’t pay rent
How many straight guys do you know who were ridiculed for seeking external validation? Or who had that used against them by their parents, extended family, buddies, girlfriend or spouse?
Gay men don’t always have these social norms placed on them, especially those who come from good family homes or have good found families or friends that want them to feel validated.
Most straight men have either been ridiculed by their parents, or their friends who were also ridiculed by their parents, and grow up ignoring those points of triumph or insecurities because they think know one cares.
Some of those who did have some amount of validation, also had those things twisted and turned against them by their spouses. All this on top of the idea that as a traditional man, you’re supposed to handle things your self, and admission to not being able to do that is seen as weakness.
Personally I just don’t really need it. I’m confident in who I am, what other people think of me based on what I look like or a single thing I did means nearly nothing to me.
Those things are just words. The only validation of sorts I seek is a loyal woman who isn’t constantly seeking outside validation.
I have people thank me for stuff at work all the time that I didn’t need to do. I always tell them I don’t need the thank you, a good reward would be money or doing something to straighten out the idiot that made me feel like I needed to do that something extra to help out in the first place to quell a dumpster fire they started.
I don’t agree with the premise of your question.
I think in general, somewhat less men seek external validation for their appearance in comparison to women, but men definitely seek external validation for other things, e.g. their skills, careers, or other achievements.
And this is largely a reflection of how society values men and women. Even if a super attractive man wanted to seek external validation for his physical appearance let’s say, he will simply get less attention than a woman doing the same thing. Last I read the highest paid female model gets paid about 3x more than the highest paid male model. The demand for attractive women is simply higher so the incentive to pursue validation for your appearance is simply higher for women.
Because we wont get it, is how I feel.
Other people don’t measure me the same way I measure myself, so I find external validation noisy and beige since it’s often based on other factors I don’t consider important. I know whether or not I pushed my limits and/or if I met my standards.
On the other hand, I don’t really express how I measure myself either, so it’s not surprising. It’s self-perpetuating and I’m happy with that
Always thought that competition is a way to find validation… But the good one.
“Monkey A does better than Monkey B. Results show it clearly, why?” Monkeys start to think about, unveil the reasons and things progress.
Every night beside the person you truly love is the most emotionally intimate night.
I think everyone seeks validation as you stated, however the value system of genders could be different.
for example, on average you could say women value opinions of strangers on social media more than men.
in which case, this could lead to the bias that men don’t seek external validation as much towards third-party sources and focus on keeping it between their friends and family.
Because it makes you seem weak and insecure. In most cases it makes sense not to seek it, though sometimes you must.
Because internally, we self validate and self soothe much better. You know, the whole “dont be a pussy” or “are you a man?” That you get told when you’re little, those kinda make you turn inwards to seek comfort and refuge.
Women don’t really do that because from the get go, they’ve been told that their problems can be resolved by just existing.
Men may no seek external validation, but want it.
The problem is: Why do you (not you, but people in general) need external validation?
We don’t teach confidence in the household. Usually hard work teaches confidence but we’ve pushed hard work further away from home. From the simplest chores as a preteen or teenager parents shield their kids.
So later in life that thing parents did to “protect” them has now harmed their self esteem and self worth. A lot of parents hold a thing that was bad to their selves and then teach that thing to their kids.
I see this more with female children. Especially in the early teens. Girls are allowed to have more attitudes. They get away with more things. Parents look the other way.
My father in law got remarried and his new wife has three daughters. No mater what they do in life these girls are “perfect”. The mom always brings it up as an “I gotch ya!” thing at our weekend bbqs. I always posed the question, why? My father in law wanted them to do dishes, or laundry, or dog poo. Nope. The girls aren’t allowed to do that.
I think this all leads to validation and confidence later in life. When mommy and daddy are far and away they’re an insecurity. They need a constant push and hug and pat on the back.
Boys on the other hand are play fighting at 4 or even earlier. I remember going full speed at a chain link fence at 5 and I just got picked up and put back on the bike. Everything hurt, but I was forced to keep going. I wasn’t allowed to sit there and cry.
I feel like this translated into pushing through my trials and tribulations in my life. When I got divorced I shook it out and moved on. I was definitely wrecked. My heart broken. My life in ruins. But if it wasn’t for moving forward I would have missed meeting the love of my life.
In male trades we compete daily. Who’s the best? Who’s faster? Who got the most accomplished? And in that we reward one another in that moment. We cheer each other on. We also in that same breath bust each other’s balls. We constantly talk shit.
This builds up confidence, but a lot keeps us mostly level headed. These are also the same guys who don’t want to fight their wives on making their daughters get jobs, or do basic chores, or maintain boundaries in the home. In the end it’s mostly the same outcome.
The only example is country raise kids. Those kids have less issues all around. Hard work, having less, makes better adults?
I got the idea from a youtuber, little platoon. Basically, men seek validation through achievements. Getting that job, beating your bully, getting the girl, etc. And women seek validation through acceptance from others. Being seen for who they are, being acknowledged for their talents, having their voice heard, etc.
Because we’re taught that external validation is for needy cowards who lack self esteem.
I think two reasons, first being man seem to be generally less wired for needing validation. Most men are used to making their own choices I’d say, and most of us like it that way too. That’s the one side.
The other side tho is a less nice one. For how’d you view a man seeking external validation? I’m almost certain the general answer to that question is: Weak. Insecure. Indecisive. Men often are not reacted to kindly when they seek validation, more often than not they’ll get made fun of – sometimes even by our own loved ones.
So even if a man likes doing and deciding things independently, which I think generally is the case, when the moment comes even an independence loving man seeks/wants/needs validation, chances are high he won’t act on that feeling out of fear of negative and hurtful reactions.
For me it’s because external validation doesn’t really do anything for me. Also I was denied that validation in the most important parts of my life when I needed it(as a child and teenager).
Seeking validation is badly seen in general. It’s even worse in the case of men because you quickly look like a jerk or arrogant for doing so.
I don’t even know how to seek validation in the first place. If I were a woman I could post pic to showoff and get a decent public. As a man I don’t even know how to reach a public that would validate me and anonymously to avoid throwback at me. Cannot deny that the thought passed by my mind but I was clueless about the “how”.
For me personally, I am used to having no validation, so I don’t seek it.
Men do that just as much if not more.
Because you’ll just crumble if you need external validation. Men don’t really receive it. Only select few will receive a bit in their lifespan and they will probably remember it. Men are also told that confidence is sexy and attractive. So you either build it up yourself, grind and survive or… you end up on the rope of depression. The choice is yours.
I’ve spent about 20 years of my life listening how terrible I am, how everything bad in the world is because of me, and how my very existence is an aggression against the fairer sex.
You want me to seek validation from others after that?